81. Ins and Outs of the Metal Fabrication Business with Josh Smith

Brock Briggs  0:00 

Hello and welcome to the Scuttlebutt podcast. I'm your host Brock Briggs. And each week, I bring you a conversation with a current or former service member at the top of their craft. These conversations will make you smarter. They'll help you explore new ideas that challenge you personally and professionally and it'll make you more money. Today, I'm speaking with Josh Smith, former EOD tech and now the owner of a large welding and fabrication business.

We talk about how his business is looking to adopt E-commerce strategies and the pros and cons of customization versus mass adoption. He walks us through his first acquisition, everything that went wrong with it and how to avoid some of those pitfalls. And we talk about his strategies for recruiting top trade talent and cultivating an environment that retains highly skilled people. You can find this episode of the podcast as well as all other SMB focused episodes, transcripts, the weekly newsletter, and the YouTube channel, all that scuttlebuttpodcast.co. Please enjoy this episode with Josh Smith.

Josh Smith  1:12 

So today, right, like? Well, I have been, like experimenting with, you know, trying to, I guess, approach different business models in the metal fabrication space and many manufacturing, things like that. And the biggest problem, let me not say problem because problem implies that it's causing some angst or something like that. But the biggest hindrance that I've seen so far is that, you know, since things are custom, right? There is a lot of flexibility and this might not make sense. But a business model can be so flexible that it's rigid, like, there's not a lot of places to go, you know, to me that are profitable.

And, you know, a big part of kind of like, what it is that I do is more, you know, trying to brainstorm and find the best solution. And so that's been like racking my brain all day. And then I have people that are giving me like these different ideas in terms of business models that we're seeing in, like, on demand, made the spec fabrication, right? And you know, they're treating it like a ecommerce business. And I'm just like, you know, the old school way of doing it is somebody showed it to your shop, they got some plans, they got a CAD drawing and you build a spec, they come, you know, you make sure to specs are in line, you hand them off this product, you get paid. And that's it, right? But, you know, my thing is just trying to figure out how to incorporate, you know, more of what I'm seeing, which is kind of an E-commerce model into it and making sure that the business model makes sense. So that is like, that is the thing right now for me.

Brock Briggs  3:04 

Yeah, the way that you described like, the traditional way of doing things is kind of how I imagined that business to be operated under. Maybe could you kind of like explain how this could be applied to E-commerce. How can you operate under that type of business model doing like welding and fabrication? That doesn't seem to be something because it is so custom.

Josh Smith  3:25 

For sure, right? But okay, think about it like this. So one thing we do is we do a lot of analysis of what our requests are and even like what you know, heavy like into the search, understanding how, you know, what people are looking for to have made, right? So one thing in particular is barbecue grills, okay? Now, a lot of times people they have an idea in mine, but you know, trying to go sit down with a fabricator, work it out, get specs and all that other stuff. It's kind of time consuming, right? And what I've recently seen is like the way certain companies are doing it and it kind of ecommerce fashion is they have pre made designs.

And they have, you know, custom engines, customizable engines, where people can go in and say look, I want to add a smoker or I want my standpipe to be you know, instead of two feet, I want to be five feet or some. I mean, just any, you know, any customization like that and it's just a bit go and plug and play and then press in pay, deposit, wherever the case may be get it built, you know get a video of it and then you know pay the final balance and get it shipped out to all, right? And there's very little interaction now with you know, the fabricator at all it's more so you're dealing with, you know their system that they have in place. These kind of smart designers, if you will have. They have like some AI tools that are in place now. And like things like AutoCAD and Autodesk. And was it a fusion 360, like those different computer aided software packages that they're like implementing to build on demand

And that's like, that's incredible because I would have never thought of like that, right? Like, I come from my kind of old school, like, with my uncle, he would, you know, somebody wanted some built, he would they would come to him. They would say, okay, I wanted this big and wanted to be looked like this. He would do a rough sketch, then, you know, there was no computers involved. It was just okay, this is going to look like. This is going to be this and then he builds it, you know. They would love it and move on from there. But this ecommerce thing is, it's, I know that eventually, it's going to lead there. And you know truthfully, I just don't want to be left behind when it does kick off, right? Like, you know, I like to think of myself as being on the cutting edge of things. And that's just kind of where I feel like, how I feel about it right now, you know. It's new, but you still have to prepare yourself for it because eventually, it's going to come full force.

Brock Briggs  6:13 

I guess the natural question that I would have about something like that is to implement something like that, that would certainly imply that you have to make a lot of the same one item. So sort of, like you mentioned, like barbecues or smokers. Like, if you get 50 of those a month, and maybe 90% of them are the exact same, then you can really kind of like just play with just, hey, here's the base model and add a couple of different things. Do you usually get that many requests that are for the same item and they're very, very similar?

Josh Smith  6:49 

So this time, yes. Like the barbecue grills and fire pit, like, those are two things that are like this time of year, where people were just like, oh, I want a custom fire pit or they wanted, they'll want to have it like a logo, plasma cut into the side of it, you know, just different thing. Like, that's usually the only variation. The design stays the same. But in terms of the personalized thing, that's where it kind of like changes. And you know, like you said like, you would need to do a lot of one thing in order for that to make sense.

And that's another issue that I'm looking at because I don't want, like, especially right now with with cost of steel, I don't want to be, you know, trying to have like a million different gauges and thickness of steel that I might use for one project or another. And you know that but that's a part of figuring this out, too. Because it's like, okay, what makes sense in particular, you know, does it make sense to keep x amount of stock for this? Because, you know, regardless of if I'm building the same thing, you know, we use this particular gauge steel or this particular thickness of steel more often than not, right? But you know, it is a challenge that I'm working through, I'll say that.

Brock Briggs  8:05 

How do you think about drawing a line between customer work and like just almost all going in on all of one product? Because kind of what you're alluding to or whatever of like, if you aren't going to make a lot of something you want to get really, really good at it. And then kind of maybe begs the question of like, I don't know, maybe you just make fire pits. And maybe it is a little bit seasonal, but maybe you have like one product like that does really well over the winter months or however the seasonality of it works. Like is there is more of the money in custom versus like maybe something that's more mass produced with like, minor customization like put your name on it or whatever it is.

Josh Smith  8:50 

Alright, alright. So kind of like a real world scenario that I could liken this to that applies to your question is, we build a lot of steel brackets for structural steel in the local area that's not really seasonal because they build all over the Virginia area. So we do those on a consistent basis and going all in on it doesn't necessarily make sense. You know, it still makes sense to keep our custom side because that allows for us to kind of keep, if you will, a pretty high level variant cash flow right. And you know, the custom parts you kind of at a certain point, you're basically it's a race to the bottom because you know, as you go over time go over time, then you would assume that that price is cheaper and cheaper because now you have your supplier on board in terms of the raw material that you need to make it. Now you need to have a dedicated tech fabricator and a fitters that can go through and run through maybe I think our case we're doing like, like close to like 50 a day.

And like we have a weekly delivery of like, I want to say closer to like 300 or something like that. So it's a balancing act, right? Doesn't mean that, I don't want to say that, I would like to choose one or the other. I just would find like try to, you know, make sure that we have a healthy balance like because you can get pigeonholed fairly easy with trying to manufacture a specific thing for your particular market. Because even if you have, let's say, like, there's some guys I know who like ship out countrywide for you know, they do a pretty decent sized, medium sized, like manufacturing operation. But you know, like, we talked about seasonality, some of those things that season, some of those things are market driven, some of those things are geopolitical driven.

And you will find yourself like, oh snap, because they got a buddy of mine, when Amazon stopped work here. In Virginia, they stopped construction lately. He had, he was supplying them with the steel beams and whatnot. Once they stopped construction, that just kind of stopped everything. And he had built infrastructure around that. And that's like, always my biggest fear, building an infrastructure around something that, you know, get stopped for whatever reason, because now you're like, okay, how do I pivot from that and it's hard to do so with raw materials in that type of spec, you know.

Brock Briggs  11:28 

Do the parts that maybe aren't affected by seasonality that are maybe more widely used? Like, either in construction or something that like everybody could use that you wouldn't have a hard time selling? Does that pigeonhole you? Because then you're like, you're maybe competing with bigger players like where size and scale really matters?

Josh Smith  11:51 

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And the larger players, the larger player, they are efficient, man. Like they are efficient, like there is, they usually, you know, that I like to say they're top heavy. So they'll come in with like, the best machinery to get it done, you know, quick, like, whereas we might be producing this specific bracket 50 a day. They can, you know, end up producing maybe 400 or 500 a day, because they have had consultants and of all types of process engineering and everything like that. So they can come in and get it really quickly, then you find yourself again at another race to the bottom. There's a better situation to be in now. I'm not going to sit there and try to speak through it as if I've been through that. But I've seen it a few times so far. And it ain't pretty.

Brock Briggs  12:46 

Yeah, you definitely want to give him the choice between price sensitive and price insensitive, you want the latter and you want to be able to and I think in that line of work, kind of that more custom work will probably always demand that and kind of attract that type of customer.

Josh Smith  13:04 

Yeah, like and even still, like, so whereas the larger like, kind of corporate manufacturing, sometimes it's not in corporate manufacturing, sometimes it's just a larger player, you know, maybe a single owner without even a board or something like that. Like where they have the advantage on doing kind of the manufacturing side, like consistently over and over doing the same pieces. Like the smaller players have have the huge advantage when it comes to customer because they're a lot more flexible, you know what I mean? So like, again, it's a balancing act on your side in and out but you just, you know, like the saying goes, getting where you fit in.

Brock Briggs  13:43 

Maybe now would be a good time to give a little bit of introduction from you, like maybe two to three minutes high level of little bit of your backstory and how you ended up in the welding and fabrication business.

Josh Smith  13:57 

All right, cool. So let's start out. No, man, but you know, in the 90s I grew up with tradesmen and like my father, electrician, my uncle welder and he was my grandfather, brick mason plumber. My other grandfather, he was an electrician, uncle's a carpenter. Who else, had cousins that were in the trade so it was just kind of like a family affair. Plus we had real estate. So all of these trades came together. We flipped houses as a kid, so like it was a lot of summers where I would basically, you know, people say, oh, I got an allowance. I was like, yeah, I got allowed to work with the family business. And you know, but yeah, man, like every summer it was kind of like this big thing where the cousins, the sons, everybody like all the young men in my family and young ladies if they wanted to, but they really didn't. I would, you would get out there.

So oh, you know, I was laying bricks. Like before, like, like 10-11 years old. I was, you know, obviously with supervision. I was learning a lot about, you know, electrical work. I could, you know, wire up, you know, single phase, you name it, right? And then I took to welding as a kid because, you know, I was really big into go karts. I was really big into dune buggies, my grandfather, he had a lot of land down in Kentucky. So it was just like, in the summer, we would have like two weeks down there. And the one thing that my uncle used to do was every year is a, we used to build a go kart or dune buggy. And my grandfather will haul it down to Kentucky, to his horse farm. And we would like obviously tear it up every year. So it was kind of like our little thing, right?

So I did that pretty much most of my young life and then all the way up until college when I started college. Because the men in my family had worked so hard, you know, in the trades. And, you know, being honest, like my uncle's, like, most of my uncle's had degrees. My grandfather's didn't have both for military vet and you know, Army and Navy. And you know, like, they were like, you know, you don't need to break your back like this. You need to be smart because I used to do project management for a lot of our rehabs like, you know, at 16, I was at home, like managing the finances of a particular rehab. I was managing crews and you know, because I knew what it was supposed to be what and went to college. But during college, I was still doing like trades work, right?

Like, funny enough, I had a union card at the local electrician union in the town I went to college at and it was just like, you know, I was like, well, this is how I make some money. And then I would come home in the summers, then you know finished college still was milling around and trades at the end of it. And I had a job at Fidelity Investments at the time, too. So I was like hustling all over the place. But things kind of got rough around that time, like the market, it was like really starting to do its thing. This is prior to the 2008 crash and I lost a job and Fidelity Investments knew there was no place for me after college. There was nobody hiring any type of accounting or anything like that. So I was like, alright, let's do the military thing. And went to the military, did my time there, honorable discharge and did a year as a contractor.

And I wasn't a lot came back was like, alright, can't do this forever because it was just really crazy. Because it was the worst deployment in the military. Because in the military, you had kind of a timeline when you'd be out of there. Unless you got fired, you really weren't getting that same guarantee with the contractor side. So came home, you know, it was like, alright, let's do this corporate thing. And I tell people this all the time and they started laughing. Somebody basically told me because a friend of mine was in law school and he basically told me like, hey, you know, I don't think you can do it. And, you know, I get like Michael Jordan, people tell him, you could do it. And I took that offensive. So it was like do or die at that point. You know what I mean? So, you know, I was working at the time. I want to say, like, I was in law school, working at a big three consulting and doing the most random thing ever, which is high end debt collection.

And it is not like the people that call you and say well, you owe T Mobile. Now, this is a little bit different, court orders, appraisers, you know, you name it. Yeah, I did that. And, you know, finished up law school and was like, all right, let's try corporate life, right? A year and some change. I was like, I can't do this. Like, it just put me on, it just kind of like took all of my energy. And then it was just trying to like find it do this balancing act of wanting to be professional but also wanting to let your personality shine, right? So after that, I was like, alright, my uncle and my dad was like, you know, you can always come home, be project manager, you know, projects again and I was just like, nah, I think I want to go full hands on. You know, like, I think I want to go full hands on.

And, but that wasn't the new issue like step, right? Like I did go home and started working with them. But then I got an opportunity to do some pipeline welding. Like because I had like, you know, the skills to do it. then a few months contract with that just realized, like, I didn't want to do that every day, it was kind of grueling. And then I went back home again. And then finally was like, Alright, so what are we doing here? You know, like you got this law degree, you're not going to use it clearly. And you don't want to do the project management. So like, what do you want to do? And fortunately, I had a supportive family, because it just allowed me to kind of go in and do what I wanted to do. So as I started fabricating more, I was already good at it. I'm one of those people that I'm extremely precise and you know, very anal about things being exact. So, you know, it was just right up the alley.

And then from there, just kind of, like, flourish into this own thing. As a result, my uncle and I came up with a plan to create like other territories, so we hit down in Texas. We had a few, like, large projects, pretty much all across the country, but we anchored down in Texas. And then, you know, it was just like, my wife had an opportunity to come out to the East Coast. While we were down in Texas, he was like, why don't we just make that the next territory? And I was like, hell yeah. So, you know, me being me. Like, I like to network with people. And people seem to pretty much like me. I'm not easy to get along with, if that makes sense. And you know, I met a gentleman, he was older, had really bad arthritis in his hand and it's kind of like a death sentence for welders. And you know, his business was like, losing a lot of money. He had guys that really had no driving direction.

And I know they're probably hear this because I told him I was gonna be doing this, but I don't want them to think that I'm talking bad about them. They just didn't have the leadership that they needed at the time due to the physical issues. And you know, we made a deal for me to buy him out. And that's pretty much where my story on the East Coast started. And it's been on since then. Then I opened up my own shop and same time, like I opened up a secondary like shop to kind of supplement what was going on in other shop and build that up. It's been about 10 months now with that one. And we have been kicking ass ever since. And now I got my own personal shop. So that's coming along well, but that'll be more so like more standard as to like manufacturing small parts and stuff like that kind of my test zone for like the business model stuff I was telling you about earlier.

Brock Briggs  22:33 

You had made a post that like one of your first gigs with your uncle was making a grill and said you made 26 grand off of your first job. And I was like, oh, that's a sign to say green flags come on down like this is the business you ought to begin.

Josh Smith  22:50 

Yeah, like I didn't. So honestly, because I hadn't really truly worked in it. Like that as an adult. I didn't understand like the money partner that like when I was young, even in college, like they paid me very well like to come home and do work and stuff like that. But, you know, like, when I was like, in it with him. I was like, holy shit. Like, what? How would? I was just completely taken aback because I was like, you know, even from a corporate standpoint, I just did not believe that, you know, you can make a single item and get 1000s of dollars from it like that, like over $20,000, right? And I was just just flabbergasted, bruh, just completely flabbergasted. But I was happy as hell. I was like, oh, I'm not going to be poor. Okay. Alright.

Brock Briggs  23:36 

I won’t live on the street anymore. That's good.

Josh Smith  23:38 

Right. You know, like, the whole nine yards, man.

Brock Briggs  23:42 

It's interesting to me that that was such a draw for you. Because it's not like you like you said, you went to law school. You worked for some high end consulting companies. It's not like you were, I mean, I don't know what you were making. But you weren't making pennies. I would have guessed. What was so different about this?

Josh Smith  24:03 

It was kind of like the freedom, man. Like the freedom of being able to make decisions on a fly that weren't extremely regimented. Like I tried to like in corporate America to the military without the rank and file. So it's like unorganized, organized chaos. And, but it's like, mundane as hell, man. Like, you mind numbing stuff, right? Like people try to like, romanticize like corporate America, like you're wheeling and dealing and you're making you know, you're doing this, you're doing that career growth and all that stuff. But I'm like, if you really look at it, like the day in and day out, that shit is boring, like, bore rain. Like and don't get me wrong. I've dealt with some high level stuff because of my security clearance and whatnot. So I was able to do it on the Gulf side with just some pretty cool shit. However, it was still like mind numbing and it's like, okay, this is just too much like I mean, it wasn't enough mentally stimulation, the mental stimulation for me. And like man outside to man like, that's one thing I miss about the military. I was the EOD. So I was always outside. So, you know.

Brock Briggs  25:25 

Yeah, you had made a post talking about a lot of other EOD guys coming back to trade work. What do you think that military people, just over the last year? I've spoken to so many former military folks, like all going into eta buying businesses or like starting companies in this small and medium business service space, specifically. What's so attractive about that? Is it the autonomy or like, it's like, certainly at least right away, it's definitely not for the money. And like, you're kind of inviting a bunch of stress on to kind of like operate a business and maybe the money is going to come. But it certainly is like a, it seems to be a very long term thinking move because you're kind of like, obviously, operating a business is not easy.

Josh Smith  26:18 

Right. So like, in regards to that particular tweet, like, I have a like a lot of guys that, you know, I started with that either became electricians or I got some more guys who are what do they do? Electricians got one guy, he actually does demolition work. Like for pipelines for the oil and gas companies. All of these guys like, the one thing that we all have in common is that it's the thing called stress inoculation, right? Like the military teaches you how to hurry up and wait. And as a byproduct, in my mind at least, we have learned patience in the most extreme form, right? Like, and especially like EOD, a lot of the guys like, you know, it was hurry up and wait, but it was a lot of being serious on the line that you had to be prepared for at all times.

So you gotta keep your mind sharp. I think entrepreneur, like being an entrepreneur and starting these type of businesses like service based SMEs, specifically, it allows you to problem solve kind of on the go. And a lot of these guys were very, very good at that in the service and it just kind of, like translate that skill outside of that. And again, just being challenged in such a way that you don't get bored. But you also are used to the grueling days of you know, what the military get through, right? And that is not necessarily that saying that's a bad thing, but it gives you really a lot of tough skin that you can weather those storms. Now, the other part of it is that you don't have the financial security as you did in the military.

So that adds another complex layer on that, but what you know, I've noticed, like for me, I was lucky because I had a family that you know, if I was if I you know, going through this journey, if anything went wrong, I know I could have picked up the phone and then literally okay the same day but some of our friends don't have that luxury, right? And you know, I can't say for them but I know for me, like it was just the freedom and then also just being able to handle the ups and downs and now buying the shop and opening that shop is definitely like you know, put some hair on the nuts, so to speak. And you know, given me a new level of patience plus my daughter she's four years old and that's a whole nother challenge in itself.

Brock Briggs  28:56 

Yeah. I want to get into that like opening that and kind of like maybe going through the process of buying that first shop or whatever some of the challenges that you saw there. One more question about just kind of military guys or and gals operating in that space. Do you find yourself encouraged by the ability to like not limited by the ability to personally like grow and develop? I think that something I find myself hearing a lot from people that are in this space is they're not capped in terms of like you're not limited by making more money of just like waiting to make rank or like to go on to move into the next thing like your life and business can move as fast as you can handle. And something that's a little bit dangerous, like you can definitely get out over your skis but having the ability to move as quickly as you want to is certainly attractive.

Josh Smith  29:56 

Oh for sure, man. I think like, once I kind of me and my uncle kind of got around and he, you know, because one thing is I had to learn that the transition from being like the kid to the adult, and then being the adult to the business partner, is that you learn about the money part, right? Like you learn the true money part. And like, I've been in the military and everything else. It was just like, oh, I could, oh, so if I, you know, if I take on this project with this amount of guys, then I can make this at the end of it or I can, you know, guarantee that, you know, I have a salary of x at the end of it like and all I gotta do is show up and do good work and have it all say less. It was a wrap, like, it was like going to the moon at that point. It was no fear at that point, like that first check on my own. I was like, it's game time. So I just, you know, I took that and it was just like, well, there's a reason to get up every day.

Brock Briggs  31:01 

Yeah, no big time. It's not, it makes that BAH that first BAH check you got at one point seem a little bit small at one point, the biggest thing. Oh, man!

Josh Smith  31:17 

Facts

Brock Briggs  31:19 

Let's, I want to hear about this the first like, you take it over and like agreeing to buy that guy out. And then can you maybe give us like a sense for the scale of the business at that time? Any, like, numbers that you can share is like always good. And then maybe kind of bring us up to speed on like, where you are now and some of those challenges along the way.

Josh Smith  31:42 

Okay. So the size of the shop is about 6000 square foot, it's pretty big. At one point, they were on track to be the largest kind of structural engineering player like metal player out in this area at the time. Well let me be very specific because this was like, I want to say closer to was a little bit further north of the DC area. So it's like around Gaithersburg, Maryland. So they were doing a lot of work between DC and Baltimore. And at one point before the current owners authorized got bad and I'm talking about like, five years ago. They were doing about maybe two and a half, 3 million revenue with about a 20% profit margin. So not really bad like at all, like he was making a pretty decent living. He prioritized, at the time, slow and steady growth.

So he was kind of like me, I don't really like looking at. I don't like the idea of using debt to really raise my to scale like that. Not I think that there has its place, I just know, for me, like I like to be in control of the steps up. And you can do that, you know, with cash flow and obviously saving and making sure that you're prepared for that. Now, he had about four or five different guys on two fabricators and two installers. And they kind of stubbed out based on what was going on during the time. And, yeah, so they were doing, like, five years ago, they were doing that. And then as his arthritis got bad, it started to climb because he couldn't, you know, assist in getting everything done. And you know, a lot of the guys to death, but, you know, at the time like, they were kind of like, pack of wolves without the leader, you know what I mean?

So they were kind of, they didn't really have the drive to, like, okay, we're gonna take on these projects and make sure that they go correctly. We're gonna, you know, do this. Nobody's really taking any initiative and I can understand why because the owner at the time really paid close to the chest. So he dealt with all the meetings, he got all the business and notepad, nobody likes, like, excuse me, shadowing him. So when I came out here, you know, I was honestly just looking for a place because I was welding out of my garage, right? So I was looking for a place more so to work out of and he you know, me and him got to talk and met at the metal store. We got to talk and he was just like, you know, if you want to come by the shop and you know, do some work, he was like, feel free. He's like, I want to charge you anything because he's a Marine, cool guy. So he's just like, you know, I got you, brother.

So I did my first project there, right? Like it was a nice little railing glass and it's cool. So I'm working in. I did the entire project by myself. So his team was kind of just kind of in awe like, man like, you'll want me a wrecking crew. I'm like, yeah, I get shit done. And, you know, just being around there and he started showing me things and I started to realize like the guys are getting a little antsy antsy because he started to notice that he was missing checks. You know, like he had a couple bounced checks and you know, he was trying to do his best. But you know, kind of took over, he really wanted to make it work and just had an idea. I was just like, man, I wonder if he'd let me buy this because this is really a nice shop, you know, some real estate attached to it.

And I'm like, it's a nice shop, I can do a lot here. And I'm pretty sure I can get these guys on board. And like, let's like, let's see what I can do. So being completely honest, I had no idea what the hell I was doing, okay? Like, I wasn't like sophisticated in terms of like how to, like purchase a business like I knew it existed, you know, I'd done some research. I even call us my buddies from the consulting side that worked in mergers and acquisition, like, it'll be oh, style, right? Like, I call them ask them like, hey, like, what should I do? And a lot of them were just kind of like, well, you know, anyone tell you this multiple, that multiple? And I'm like, man, I don't know. Like, that's a lot to kind of come in with considering the circumstances.

So a few months pass. And he just like, I tell you what man is like, it's like, if you can buy me out, I think the number at the time he originally wanted was like, $700,000. But they were at this point, like, so like 1 million in revenue, right? Like, you know, like, they were low, like me barely covering expenses and stuff. And I was just like, Ah, I don't know about that one. But I just kind of thought the idea came up, I was just like, well, I could have given that price, but he got the seller financed the whole thing. You know, because I have friends in real estate, my dad was and my parents were in real estate and was in real estate. He just like, why don't you just get a seller financed. And at that point, I was like, well, I can get them closer to what he wants 700,000 But I'm like, man, it's gonna kind of suck in terms of, you know, trying to build this up, because I wasn't truly prepared to own a shop at the time, I was really more prepared for just like, a two, maybe a two three man operation in the small shop, right?

So we shook hands on it with the understanding that we keep his guys on board. And I keep them working because a lot of those guys have been with him, like 20 years. Some of them a little shorter than that. But you know, they're basically base feeding their family off of his word. And, you know, they were really gonna stick with them. Regardless, the ship went down or not, which is, you know, admirable. But, you know, for me, I was like, are you crazy? And, you know, understood, like where they were. And we made an agreement, shook hands on it and I gave them $20,000 in cash. And I just told him just to go introduce me to everybody. You know, like, we spent like, about the first two, three months. We were going everywhere because he did some jobs out in Philly. He did some jobs in Baltimore. He did some jobs in Pennsylvania. I mean, he was all over the place.

And, you know, I was like, man, that's part of the problem right now. You got your guys being spread out so thin, and, you know, you can't do everything you used to do. So I started like, kind of formulating the idea of like what I needed to do, which was localize the business a lot more before we started to look to branch out again. And that's what I did like as soon as I took over. So like I went heavy, like the metal supplier. I was just like, look, man, I'm gonna buy this X amount of stock. You got any clients that you know, like, they come in asking or you know, anybody personally, like, I was just networking with everybody at that point. We started doing structural jobs, a lot of structural jobs immediately because, you know, I had a monthly payment due to him.

I think it was around 12 grand, you know, that was what we came up with, like 200 down 12 a month because I was like, I know I can make that and give that to him. But what I wasn't thinking about was like the running the business. So like, I was like cash strapped initially, like because it took a lot of upfront cash now don't get it twisted, I had a lot of savings that I could dip into but you know, in terms of like, like being comfortable for those first few months it was not because you know, being as strong sometimes you run into situations like this thinking that oh, it’s going to be simple. It wasn’t, you know, but yeah.

Brock Briggs  39:39 

Were you paying yourself during that time when you were making those payments?

Josh Smith

No

Brock Briggs

Okay, just living off the savings and paying him

Josh Smith  39:46 

Yeah, cuz on the side of it like just for full transparency like I still do some consulting on the side like so. Like being honest, I still don't take a check right now. We talked about over a year and some change later. I still don't take a salary now because my consulting money, like from stuff that I was doing in corporate still is enough to pay my bills. But you know, when you started dipping into that, if you start like, so yeah, man. But yeah, I was fine. But it was just like, I jumped into it because I just was like, oh, this could work, this could work. But I didn't really come in with a plan of attack. At first, I was just kind of like, I'm gonna get in there, do like my uncle does. And then boom, I got it. But we hit with a chance, man.

Brock Briggs  40:36 

What do you think that were the most critical things that you should have done? Like, let's say that you're gonna go back and do this acquisition a second time, same circumstances, with the knowledge that you've got now. What moves would you have done differently just maybe speaking to other people looking to buy businesses or in a similar spot?

Josh Smith  41:00 

So, one thing I would have done is, because we had a big problem with the machinery, right? Like, the machinery was really old. And it worked. But you know, the kind of saying that if it's not broken, don't fix it. That's complete bullshit. Because even if it's not broken, it can be inefficient, you know, what I mean, for the operation that you need to have. And I knew better. Honestly, I really didn't know better. But, you know, it was an ego thing that kind of drove me into that. But looking back now, definitely, the equipment would have been the first thing I checked out, you know, because like in God bless my team because they were doing their best. But I found a lot of things to be out of spec because of the equipment being aged as it was. And, you know, I think I've said it early in here. I'm very anal about things being exact, especially when we come down to manufacturing, like, I don't play that like

Brock Briggs  42:04 

Yeah, specs to make and you know, there's buildings being built on this stuff like

Josh Smith  42:08 

Bro, I keep a micrometer with me to make sure. Like I don't play. But yeah, like, you know, bless their hearts, they good guy saw the guy that just needed a little bit better guidance. We were having problems with the final product coming out the door skewed and things like that. And I was just like, okay, like, they don't really have pride in what they're doing right now. And I think it was just like a lack of, you know, just motivation. And I don't think, because right now they're having like a well oiled machine, I just think that they needed like somebody who cared enough to be like, now we're gonna do it this way. But yeah, like, equipment would be one. Also, understanding the temperament of the crew that you're getting, like, really understanding the crew. Because like, for me, like, when I came in, I was like, hotshot, like, we're gonna do this, this, this and this.

And you know, like, I want to hear nothing, this is what we're doing. But a lot of these guys have their own work in tempo. They have their own working, you know, their harmonic balance, as I like to call it. And you can't go disturbing that when you're a new face. You can't go disturbing, especially, you know, when you take the helm as the owner because they'll go back and say, Well, I used to do X, Y, Z with him, like, I can’t do that with you. And it's like, I'm not him, though, like, you know, and that caused a lot of conflict. And that that kind of, like, contributed to a few months where things were just not like, really good, like and then on top of that, cash flow, understanding that when you make that deal, need the account for working capital, need to account for you know, making sure that all the systems are you know, good to go in terms of how you manage your capital and how you use that capital. Oh, the accounting. Oh, my God. Whew!

Brock Briggs  43:59 

I bet those books were a mess.

Josh Smith  44:02 

A mess is an understatement. A mess is an understatement. Like, I had to call a buddy of mine from Deloitte. And I was like, bruh he's a CPA. I said, honestly, man, I noticed that gonna probably cost me an arm and leg and probably my second born child or whatever the case may be, but I need you, I need you. And then he came down and like I'm talking about paper records from like 25 years. Paper records, man. So yeah, so those are things that I would do differently. but fortunately for me, I'm never one of those people that look at the situation be like, ah, screw myself and have a pity party.

Because it just fired me I'd be more I was like, I fuck it. It's time to get live. Let's go like, you know on the fly. It's like who can I call you know, who can I call to fix the situation? Who can I attack to help me with this? You know and then just networking too because, you know, at first it wasn't, it wasn't easy to network because the guy had had, you know, this kind of reputation because his quality started falling. So being associated with it at this point as the new owner, it was like, oh, same story, different face. So yeah, just understanding like, doing some reputation management, prior to.

Brock Briggs  45:33 

Yeah, it sounds like if you're calling it buddies from Deloitte, you're really going after the big guns.

Josh Smith  45:41 

I needed that help to clean that up, man. Those books was just terrible, man. Like, that was like a half a bottle of whiskey. And that last call when the lights are still dim, you like, alright, let's go home.

Brock Briggs  45:57 

Well and I think that a lot of the things that you talked about there, it's like fringy, all the SMB folks, you know, kind of knowing exactly that feeling. And if they made an acquisition before have largely dealt with a lot of those issues, it highlights a big opportunity because a lot of the SMBs that are in existence right now are run that way. And so for somebody that's talented and can like, kind of grit through that, you've got a big chance to drastically improve it.

My question, I guess, would be, what are the things maybe that are and maybe you didn't know, and maybe just got lucky or maybe you saw it and it was no big deal. But anything that could have been like a deal breaker, in terms of like, you know, you're talking about managing your cash flow and your accounting? If the books are that big of a mess, you could maybe take over the business and be up shit creek really, really quick and maybe make a big mistake. Are there areas maybe that weren't really specific attention when looking at those?

Josh Smith  47:11 

So, that's actually funny that you say that because I don't know, I'm pretty sure you probably saw it. But I'm like, at this point, starting to due diligence company where I dive into the operations side of the company, like you know, supply chain management, equipment, manpower, training, safety and quality assurance, like, I started a comp, I'm starting well, it's almost better to be informed, but I'm starting that because those are the areas where like, I had to come in and like literally, like, literally, like focus my attention so much so that like it took away from other things. And just to kind of like, dog myself out, I knew better. Like I really did know better because my father, he has electrician Business. And he has like 15 guys and my uncle the welding business, he has, like, you know, 11-12 guys, at this point, so I knew what to look for.

And again, I just kind of jumped in like a dummy. And just kind of like, you know, you watch your own thing, especially when you come in from, you know, fill in shoes and stuff like that. Like on a a family side, you just get tunnel vision. But yeah, like, so the consulting, consulting business, like on the operation stuff, like the equipment. Like I said, quality assurance, supply chain, like those are things because we had a huge problem with like, the suppliers that we were working with. Because we had, you know, originally we were doing before opening the second shop. We were doing more structural stuff. And man, he didn't realize that he was overpaying by like 40% because he'd been with these guys for years.

And they didn't think to, I mean, maybe they just thought he was just. It was sweet like that. But he never thought to challenge the pricing. He just said this was the price they gave me. So I paid and I was just like, man, I'm like looking at that. I was like, oh, hell no. Like bruh, I can go up the street and find that at maybe a 5% markup, which is not bad, but you know, 40% bruh? Like, so yeah, that those are the things that I would definitely hone in on because, you know, I'm not the most savviest financial guy, but I have people that that are so I don't really, you know, I know I can get them and you know, to help me out if I need it.

Brock Briggs  49:47 

Yeah, well, you don't gotta be a savvy financial guy to know when you're being ripped off when you can buy the same product for that much cheaper at another spot.

Josh Smith

For sure

Brock Briggs

Alluded to, so you're talking about this acquisition and it kind of talked about running multiple shops. You've talked about, like running these remotely and you've got shops in different locations. How do you manage that? Especially so early on, this is another like hot topic for SMB folks of like, when to expand, you know, not growing too quickly because you're kind of, as you've all alluded to also with all of the problems of just this one business taking on that multiple and multiple times in too quick of succession is another recipe for disaster. So how are you managing that?

Josh Smith  50:38 

So memories of me as a kid, the family would get all the boys together. So wherever we are, wherever we have, like kind of territory is usually where somebody lives, okay? So it's someone in the family, that's doing something that's managing a particular location, but I'm usually overseer of all of that because I have like, instead of just like a specific skill, I'm not generalized, either. I’m highly specialized, but I know enough things that I can run that, you know, run it as I see fit because we know how to communicate with each other. But yeah, so you know, I I wouldn't say that I have some sort of magic or anything like that. It's just just the fact that our family has been in this for a while. So we have, you know, the infrastructure, if you will.

Brock Briggs  51:29 

So are you guys doing multiple trades out of the same shop? Is that?

Josh Smith  51:34 

Oh, no, actually. So they're separate. But now actually, we're looking to my dad and uncle are looking to merge into one we're. So the plan right now is to put everything under one umbrella, bring everything in house because right now, it's just a bunch of different LLCs under a holding company, you know, so we want to just one band one sound this day. Like, that's the next step. But trying to figure out the legalities of it, trying to figure out the intellectual property side of it, trying to figure out the licensing side of it, it's just been kind of really complex. And, you know, like, we got some good folks, like, I'm not the, I wasn't the only person in my family who went to law school. So we have a family that's working on that as well, but I'm gonna be honest with you, they move very, very slow. So

Brock Briggs  52:30 

Yeah. What kind of benefits do you see from bringing that all under one umbrella?

Josh Smith  52:38 

So for all this would allow us to turn the market and marketing specifically it would allow us to, you know, like, less than the amount that we spend because we wouldn't be spending it, you know, to branch out each different, like brand that's currently under. It would just give us a little bit more synergy in terms of like how we manage things in house. I think that'd be like the benefit primarily, but then also, larger facility that could, you know, from a real estate side, we have a facility for you know, welding fabrication. Now, the half could be, you know, electrical stuff you don't really need like a shop shop for because you're doing more stuff on site than anything, but it would allow, like my father be able to do more storage and stuff like that because that was kind of like a big thing for a while. Like, he like stuff that he needed a lot. He was trying to carry it in a basically a sprinter. And it just was causing a lot of issues because break ins and stuff like that was happening quite a bit.

Brock Briggs  53:46 

One of the other interesting things that you had posted about that I wanted to kind of ask and get you to kind of lay out because I think it would be beneficial. You talked about using, like technical or trade schools as recruiting locations. Again, I'd like walk through like how that kind of came to be and how that had maybe changed or impacted your recruiting for new fabricators?

Josh Smith  54:12 

Oh, man, let's go down that path.

Brock Briggs  54:16 

Let's get it.

Josh Smith  54:17 

So when I purchased the first shop, right? It was one, I needed fresh blood that could help. Because, you know, most of the guys in the first shop, they're like all closer to 40. Some of them are over 40. So, you know, kind of stuck in our ways, right? And it's hard to truly, truly, you know, because I'd say we're younger, like tradesmen. It's kind of like, think about it like a mentor-mentee relationship. People are a lot more like admirable in terms of what they're willing to learn from this person as well as you know what they're willing to teach, right? So, man, it was like, I started like before I started the second shop, it was like, alright, I need youngblood and I was like, I noticed that the residential side of things like the first shot couldn't cover because they were more structural based guys.

So it was like, you know, residential projects like the staircases, the nice staircases, the nice railings, you know, the sculptures and things like that because we've done some sculptures as well. And I was just like, man, I gotta get some new blood who got like, some new eyes on that stuff. Because, you know, where I basically been the youngest in the family welding business, like, so I was the one that everybody took, you know, advice from stuff like that because I had so many a plethora of experiences. Like, I needed that. So, you know, I was like, man, I could see this market opening. You know, with the residential side, I was like, but I really don't, it's virtually impossible to really find like welders that are willing to come work for you if they're already out there. Unless they have come from another shop.

And I'll tell you what I did to get the world just buy the shop right after this. But I was at the metal shop. And you know, I was just like, man, I put some feelers out on Craigslist and LinkedIn and all that stuff. And nobody was buying. And I was like, even with it, like the benefits that we were offering, like nobody was buying, like or the pay, like, I mean, we were offering way over the normal file here. Like, like, it was pretty high because DC area got a high cost of living. So we couldn't attract with that. I was like, hey, at the metal shop again, always meet people at the metal shop because that's where a lot of people like hanging out. So the guy from the metal shop was like, did you ever think about going to the trade school? I was like, huh, that's a good answer.

Yeah. All right. Let me see if this work, you know and just started calling because it was like it made more sense to you know, get in touch with these folks.

Because I was like, man, they still got like this fresh blood and people who are just into it. So you're gonna be, you know, willing to go by the book. I'm gonna more likely to just gonna be happy to get on board with something because it was kind of tough for people finding jobs in that space. It's probably the best decision I've ever made cuz I got some super talent. Like, super talent, like, like these kids are fucking rock stars. Like, like, I mean, like, people, they say they worried about the future. I'm like, yeah, not paying attention. Like yes, it's gonna be some bleak moments. But there's some kids out here who got that “it factor”. But I found like, really good fabricators still had to, you know, teach a lot of them about the installation side of and how we make things precise. How we, you know, how you read plans, blueprints and stuff like that.

But no, those are little things that you learned as you go. You don't need to know it. But in terms of them putting metal to put in flame the metal they got. And yeah, man, it was like, I made a deal with the school. And basically, we set it out to where while they're still in school. They get OJT by coming to work for me. And you know, I pay them. I think I pay the students still 15 an hour who are like still in school, but when I bring them on, they come in at 25 an hour. You know what I mean? So but yeah, man, trade school tech school, bruh. A one, man, like a one but you know, like anything sit around and see who you're getting before you just say oh, I got a puddle now, you know?

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Josh Smith

But I was gonna tell you how I was getting tradesmen from other shops. So I learned a lot about as to a good friend of mine and I was just, he was teaching me about geo tagging, like locations like for people specifically get your ads. So what I did was the competitors that and we don't have no problem and then like that, but I was just like, man, I need people and you know, we don't really have relationships. I don't feel bad about it. I would geotag shops. So my ad delivery for jobs would go to text because they will be geo tagged in that location. So all of a sudden they start getting ads from my company.

Brock Briggs  59:42 

Oh, man, so they're like on their phone or whatever and they're getting ads. Oh, man. That's ruthless.

Josh Smith  59:53 

I know, man. I know, but it works. I got some seasoned guys to help my young guys. So you know, but that's why I tell people like if you don't get on this tech stuff now, you're gonna find out real quick because that's, you know, in my opinion, it is a little bit of a thing that you can do, right? Imagine what other stuff that I don't even know yet.

Brock Briggs  1:00:14 

Yeah. What kind of things do you find yourself competing over to attract those people other than just money? Like the more seasoned people I'm talking about?

Josh Smith  1:00:27 

It is the type of work and the type of environment. You know, like, it's kind of weird because a lot of these guys, some of these guys, they don't want a highly politicized environment. They don't want to talk about politics, they just want to make metal beautiful, right? And so, until I have a policy, you know, talking about politics in here, you know, like, if you want to engage in something productive, sure. But we don't talk about nothing that's going to upset the balance. And here because I'd like to tell them straight up. I care about your well being, but I don't care about your political positions. Because I don't even have one. I'm just agnostic about everything. So you know, that was like, the biggest thing because I had one guy telling me about an interview.

He was like, you're not wanting to, you know, just obviously, I'm black man. So he's like, what do you think about black lives matter? I don't have an opinion on something. And I'm not involved in it. He was just like, okay, okay, cool. He's like, I'm just trying to make sure, you know, whoa, I was like, why are you using what's wrong, but two, you know, I was like, you know, there are no identity politics over here, you can do the job. And that's what I'm here. That's what we're here for. So, you know, they like that I'm straightforward about that type of stuff, you know, there is. I'll have an agenda. I don't want them to have an agenda. I want them to come do what it is, they're there to do. And you can sometimes you're off the clock, you can do the hell you want, you know what I mean? But I do foster an environment that everybody, you know, should understand that we're there to get better. You know, I don't know about making you a better person.

But I definitely know about making you a better tradesman, you know and that's how I keep things on an even keel, especially for bringing people in from other shops. Because, you know, being very honest with you, you either, you know, a lot of the welding operations, especially in this area, it's usually mostly white men. So, just to add, like a component to this, I took over a shop that was literally 100% white men. But you know, my veteran background, as well as me know what the hell I'm doing. Like it that knock that right on out the park, nobody was even thinking about it. They was like, we can't talk shit to this guy because like, we just watched him literally build, like, 100 feet of railing in placed glass by himself. What are we gonna say to him that's going to impact him or anything that he got going on. And, you know, it worked out in my favor.

Brock Briggs  1:03:05 

One of the things I find really interesting about trade work is it's so similar to or the environments are so similar to the military, because at the end of the day, you can talk all the shit you want. It's about the quality of your work. Or maybe it's your PFT score or whatever. Like if you can back it up, then, you know, you're gonna get the respect that you deserve. So that's super cool.

Josh Smith  1:03:31 

Oh, yeah, man. It's like, it cuts a lot of shit down when it's like, are you good at what you do? Yes. All right. Cool. Respect. Let's keep going.

Brock Briggs  1:03:43 

I think you've highlighted another thing there too, that by bringing in people who are in the trade or technical school to your shop for OJT, you're able to kind of like try them out as a cultural fit for your shop. And then also kind of give back to the whole trade system. You get some discounted labor, get to kind of like help train and bring them up and also going to give back to the ecosystem of that environment.

Josh Smith  1:04:11 

Yeah, for sure, man. And here's the thing. So while I do pay the ones who are just getting OJT 15 an hour, I give them commission on every job too so they can get the $25 an hour just because like when you're in school, I know you got to focus man because I've been there myself. So like I take care of them on the back end but at the school only allowed them to make 15 an hour. So okay, yeah, man. So the OJT side of it, honestly man just really gives you really good insight on what's going to happen with labor in the interim and in the long term, right? But for me it is more fulfilling because like, having like family in the business, like it's really dope because like, they taught me everything. And obviously there was no, it was just hey, you're my son, you're my nephew, your grandson, we're gonna teach you everything just because you need to know this for life, right?

But like, you know, on my side, it's more like man, like, I've been fortunate enough to learn these skills for free. Like, let me at least give somebody a shot too. Because you know, while prior to this, we weren't able to hire people who didn't have the skills are ready. Now we're in a weird, we got enough motion, and enough cash flow and enough work that we can start bringing in people who don't know how to weld at all. And, you know, we have some people like that actually, like just starting out. And we're able to, like, teach them and bring them in which will, you know, because sometimes these trade schools aren't cheap and you know, depending on what's happening in your life because we have some guys that got felonies, so he can't get financial aid for this type of stuff. So we have to bring them in. We have to teach them everything.

And it's just really fulfilling because it's like, man, you give us my opportunities, so they'll never have to, you know, big anybody for a job because they got the skill to do, you know, what others can't. And that makes me happy. Like, even though I've had every opportunity in life, no, not really any shortfalls with people being able to stop anything I've ever wanted to do. I just know from just seeing how people who had those restrictions will be, you know, from mistakes they made as the early young adult or just even just like being in life, you know, just being able to provide that opportunity. It's like, man, like, I can sleep good at night. And then also too, man, people are really grateful when you take care of them, like, you know, and I've been out of town pretty much all week.

So, you know, being gone. I was like, really paranoid. That was like the first time I really like left left. So it was just like, okay, is there anything went wrong and I was trying not to check my phone and try not to call, which I did. But to find out that things did go wrong, but they would just correct it. And I didn't even have to get involved with it. And you know, these are from newer folks. These are from my older guy. It was just perfect, man. I was like, building the right team, building the right environment and they will flourish.

Brock Briggs  1:07:23 

Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's like such a vote of confidence that you're kind of doing the right thing and putting it to the test for the first time.

Josh Smith  1:07:31 

Facts, facts, man. Love it though, man. I don't know. It's just cool. Because like, I don't know, man, like, cuz it's a lot of doom and gloom in his world right now. And it's like, the most basic things like for me, just really make me happy. And you know, this, it may seem like it's a lot like, oh, you're training people to you know, well, then you're training people to fabricate training people, you know, to basically run many businesses and their own day to day with these projects and stuff like that. But I don't know, man, it's just like the sunshine, man. I don't know, like even when it's raining, the sun is shining to me.

Brock Briggs  1:08:17 

I feel like a good sign that you're in the right line of work.

Josh Smith  1:08:20 

Oh, yeah, for sure too, man. I love it every day. Like I get up every day happy, goddamn pig and shit, bruh.

Brock Briggs  1:08:27 

What do you think that people most misunderstand about business ownership?

Josh Smith  1:08:39 

I think the oversimplification of what it takes to make a business work. And the pitfalls that come along with it via the family via be, you know, business related, personnel related. I think the over simplification of it, like, you know, my gripe right now with like, the SMB community on Twitter is that it's just like, okay, okay, people who've never worked with their hands a day in their fucking lives, you're gonna go out there. You're gonna take some money and you're gonna make this thing work. And it's like, okay, I understand that that's a marketing tool. I understand that. But it's like, these are real things. These are real services. These are things that people are trained their entire lives to do some of these things, at least. These are things that people have spent time and money to build out and, you know, it's not as simple as just jump in there. You just do something, right?

Like, there are steps you need to take, like, you know, like, I told you about the mistakes that I made when I bought mine. You know, and that's just, you know, it worked out for me, but I would not recommend anybody to jump in it like that because that was stupid. It was a really unnecessary risk that had I been a lot more patient, I could have probably done a lot better with the execution of it. We would have been where we are now probably a little bit sooner. And so yeah, the oversimplification of it. And then also everybody's rushing to, like, okay, I'm gonna roll up these companies and I'm gonna roll up this and roll up that. A lot of these folks are not taking into account that you have to deal with individuals, this is not corporate America, like I like, okay, I can't say who, but it's somebody on Twitter that I talk to very often.

And he was standing and I punched him in the face when they showed up on site to a plumber's business. And they basically hounding this guy, like, you know, I can do this for you do that for you. And the guy just, like, lost it because he's like, I don't want to hear from you because he's like, I don't have an MBA.  I don't have a degree. I'm just a guy who became a plumber to, you know, do trade school in the union and stuff like that, like, leave me alone. And I was like, man, I want people to be a little bit more compassionate with these things as well, right? Like, stop over simplifying it, stop trying to make, you know, this process of purchasing these businesses that people put blood, sweat, tears too, like, it's just a notch on a corporate belt because, you know, me personally, I'm like, I'm getting wind a lot of these guys like, especially on my side of like, fabrication they like if you come in there.

And you ain't never did a day in your life doing this training, I will not, they're not even willing to talk to you. Because it's like an insult to them. Like you just gonna come in and tell me that you can make this business better, you ain't never worked, you know. And that kind of gives me an advantage, honestly, because I have worked in and I have like a work history and no matter like, I went to law school, it doesn't matter that, you know, I was in the military, doesn't matter, none of that stuff. Because when it comes down to brass tacks, like, oh, yeah, I know what this rod is. I know what this type of metal is. I know how to weld this particular metal. I can stack bands, you know, all of that stuff, right? But I want people to be more compassionate, stop over simplifying it. And, you know, and don't complicate it, but don't over simplify, take some time to really do your research.

And instead of being fake and going out there and saying, hey, you know, I can get you this multiple and stuff like that. Honestly, a lot of these folks just want somebody to take an interest in what it is that they do. Like, that's the kind of the key that I learned a lot of these folks just want somebody who's gonna who can buy that business, but they have an interest in what it is that they do because they love that field, right? Like they're into it. Like, I meet a lot of plumbers, specifically and I don't have any type of want to buy a plumbing business or electrical business, even though my dad has given me one when he retires. But I don't have any, like I'm wanting any type of stuff. I like what I do. But every person that I met, they just want somebody that has love not even a love for just like, yo, man, this is like really interested in me like yo, I like XY and Z, like willing to work with them, willing to come out in the field and show them that they just not a suit.

That's kind of take it and reorganize something that they spent, you know, 25-30 years building, you know, that's what I would say indefinitely man, like, get help, like, get help, like, seriously, like, get help. I messed up there. I messed up that really bad like with this first shot. But you know, I had a happy ending just because I had an opinion doesn't mean that it couldn't have been better, less stressful. You know? Like anybody listening to this, don't make the same mistake I did. You know, just take your time. All things will come to you in due time if you just keep walking forward.

Brock Briggs  1:14:05 

That's fantastic advice. I think that it is difficult to kind of sort through the noise and the influencers of people on Twitter that are doing a lot of the things that you're talking about. You highlighted their

Josh Smith  1:14:20 

Yeah, bless their hearts, man, bless their hearts. I don't think they mean any malice or anything like that. I think a lot of it, you know, and I think a lot of it just comes down to you know, it's exciting and it's new. So it's like and then when I say exciting and new it's just a different side of what's the normal trajectory for somebody who went to the Wardens of the world. The harvest of the world is different because it's like, holy crap, the very thing that you guys told me to stay away from that's why I went to school is something that I can really like make money off of. Like these people have been living like this without having to go through all of this without the stress of going to get a degree without but like it's kind of an eye opener so I don't take it as any type of negativity that they're doing this or that they're trying to like give the false perception that is something that is not. I just think is just like when a puppy.

You know, when a puppy is like overstimulated, they just run around doing all type of crazy stuff. And you're like, what, calm down? And like, yeah, I love you still, buddy, but you need to calm down, relax your heartbeat, not your chest. You know what I mean? Like, I think that I don't think it, you know, I don't think it's any malice or anything like that. I just think they're really excited because for the first time and really is for lack of remember, you know, people are being enticed back to the trades. Like I remember a time when, you know, people were basically saying, like, oh, if you go into the trades, you failed in life. That's the only thing you could do. Like, I specifically remember people saying that. Like, when I was in college, I mean, I saw like, you know, I had a professor, I remember that he was cursing this guy out who was you know, I think it was a plumber or something like that, cursing him out. Like, this is the only thing you're good at. And, you know, it threw me off because I grew up around trades and I'm like, dad, my granddad money, brush. Like, you got a horse farm, bruh. What do you mean?

Brock Briggs  1:16:21 

On that horse money

Josh Smith  1:16:25 

Like, I know he’s making more than you. Okay, you know, but you know, I just think it's excitement, man. I just want people to, to just be cognizant of it. That's all. That's all. That's all. I think they're well meaning people. I think they really could do some good if they really just treat people a little bit more than just the numbers that their business is worth. That's all.

Brock Briggs  1:16:48 

I agree. Well, and you know, EOD man is just like all you gotta do is cut the green wire. It's just that simple, right? You know, SMB is the same thing, raise prices 20% and you're done.

Josh Smith  1:17:01 

Yeah. You know, white behalf, all right.

Brock Briggs

We’re good here.

Josh Smith

Slow motion walk away. Let it blow up behind you, no aftershock. No, nothing.

Brock Briggs  1:17:14 

Right. Josh, this has been a really fun conversation. I appreciate you joining me. What can myself or anybody listening do to be useful to you?

Josh Smith  1:17:26 

Honestly, I would like to be useful to people, man like, you know, I would like for people who want to find, who want to buy in the metal fabrication and manufacturing space. So just reach out man, like I try to, I'm jumping on calls like every week for folks, man, even with my schedule and I talk and walk. I've even started inviting some people out to the shop, we're close, man because I'm like, you know, my thing is, I would rather tell you where I went wrong than watch you get it wrong, you know.

So, you know, what people can do for me is just let me know what makes what they want to see more of, because I am trying to get better with threads and all that good stuff. Because sometimes it's kind of tough, man. And I can only come in and talk a little shit and be on my way. But I want to do more threads, especially on the due diligence side for buying, you know, shops and whatnot. I like really, really, really want to get into that because I want to help, you know, SMB buyer, especially in the manufacturing side. You know, avoid the pitfalls that I did, especially with the equipment, quality and assurance, supply chain, stuff like that, because that'll take you out of the game for you and start. So I want to push that a lot more.

Brock Briggs  1:18:47 

I'll be sure to include a link to your Twitter in the show notes. Josh, I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much, man.

Josh Smith  1:18:55 

No prob, brother. I appreciate it.