67. Defining Life's Protocol with Martha Macphee

Brock Briggs  0:00  

Hello and welcome to the Scuttlebutt podcast, the show for current and former service members who don't accept the status quo. Today, I'm talking with Martha MacPhee. She's a Marine, not currently and I'd say former but you know how Marines get about that. Martha is a protocol and event expert. In this discussion, we talk about her time running protocol for high visibility events, including President Trump's inauguration and how her job translated into the civilian world working with organizations like Susan Davis International. We also talked about her work with the Military Influencer Conference, a funny story about Rob Riggle at last year's event, and a teaser for this year's conference in Las Vegas. 

She also gives us a unique take on the word legacy, what that means and how we ought to think about what happens after we're gone. Before we get into our conversation, I'd appreciate you sharing the episode on whatever platform you spend the most time on: LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, whatever it may be. Screenshot the episode, drop a quote, anything you'd love about the show and tag me in it. Those small things help me and the show grow to the 100,000 downloads Big Hairy Audacious Goal I've set for this year. I appreciate your help and getting the show there. Here's my conversation with Martha MacPhee.

Brock Briggs

I think one of the best places that I want to start is actually something that you brought up to me, who is John Glenn?

Martha MacPhee  1:46  

So everyone knows John Glenn is the astronaut, all this guy in space, senator. But funny enough growing up, he was my grandfather's first flight instructor. So they became really good friends. They lived next to each other in Texas. I have a great story of John Glenn actually talking my grandfather out of becoming an astronaut because it took a lot of family time. So growing up, I always wanted to be a lobbyist. I wanted nothing to do. I didn't want to be in the military. I wanted nothing to be you know, like nothing to do with it. My grandfather even tried to bring a Navy chief to my house and I locked myself in my bedroom door as a 17 year old stuck up snobby. I get it. Girl, he tried to get me to say sir and ma'am and I just thought it was ridiculous. Like there's no way I would ever join the military. 

And one day, because I wanted to be a lobbyist. I was like, okay, after college, I want to be an intern in Washington, DC. And we haven't seen John, but you know, John was a senator. So who better to write my reference to be an intern than John Glenn? My grandfather goes, okay, we'll go see John. He was in Ohio. That's fine. I'll drive you up there on one condition. And I was 22 at the time, I think. And I was like, okay, he goes to go see an Air Force recruiter. And my grandfather's a Marine. So I was like an air you know, okay, sure, whatever. I'll go pop in. I'll grab a few pamphlets and it'll be totally fine. And I'll jet out. I still want nothing to do with the military, I get to see John Glenn. And this works out perfectly. 

So I went over to an Air Force recruiter around lunchtime and there was a sign on the door that said, out to lunch, we'll be back out so and so time and I remember thinking this is ridiculous. I just need to get this over with. Like I'm wasting my lunch to come by, you know, to see this Air Force recruiter. They're not even here. I remembered the Marines happened to be around the corner. So I was like, oh, same thing, same, same doesn't matter. I'll go pick some pamphlets from the Marine recruiters office, chat with them for a few minutes and then jet out, never hear from them again. And let me tell you, marine recruiters are really good at their jobs. I can attest to that wholeheartedly. I think the first thing and I'm a huge, like a sports person, so I'm very competitive. 

If you tell me I can't do something, it's exactly what I'm gonna wanna do. And the Marine recruiter took a look at me. He goes, no, I just don't think. I don't think you're what we're looking like before I got to reject them, they almost rejected me. And I remember thinking, no way, I will prove to you that I'm exactly who, I mean they're amazing at their job. I will give them that. But fast forward, my grandfather did exactly what he said. I at least went to see a recruiter. We drove up to see John. I hadn't seen him since I was little so it had been a while. He's so amazing, in that he'll just casually drop like Neil Armstrong will be like Neil and I were in this, you know, just and I'm like, can we just stop? Are we talking about Neil Armstrong or like Neil Smith down the street, like who? 

And but he'll just sit there and tell you stories and we went to lunch with him and his wife Annie. And it was so amazing, like he just for four hours just would just jet off stories. And what I didn't realize at the time is that my grandfather took over a squadron for him. So they had the same squadron patch, that they were both commanders out, which was kind of cool. So I got to see their patch. I got to take pictures, I got to do all that. And I ended up not even asking him for an internship letter, ended up going to the Marine Corps. Because again, I was bound and you know, determined to prove this recruiter wrong, that I could be a Marine, end up loving it. And everyone's like, has this moment where like, you knew you didn't wanna be a Marine, so you know, in the military. 

So like, what was the moment that you're like, okay, this is kinda like, this is what I wanna do. And in OCS, we have to go through this water with barbed wire fences and I grew up on a ranch. So barbed wire, I got tangled in it. I've been cutting it. I know how to jump them, you know, all day long in them. And so this girl in front of me was stuck in this barbed wire fence. And she's panicking because there's water, you know, she's trying to keep her head above water. She's stuck behind. I was like girl like, hold on, you know, like, I got you. I'm coming up. And I'm used to being on a farm. And I'm used to being in muddy water and barbed wire. And all this stuff is not a normal, you know, and I'm in full camouflage. 

And apparently, I'm smiling from ear to ear. And when I get out of the water, the gunnery sergeants like I will camouflage your teeth next time if I see you come out of the water like that. And I realized, like, I was really enjoying everything about you know, like, even the worst part about it being up at 2am in the water being stuck with barbed wire people screaming at me. I was really enjoying my time. And that's kind of the moment that I was like, okay, I got it. I'm gonna do it. And John wrote me letters while I was at OCS, which was great, encouraging me. And he was thinking about coming. He ended up not being able to come to my graduation, because it's something in Florida. But I put him on the list in case because he was trying to work it out. 

And at the time, I don't know if I really understood the importance of him. Like I knew he was cool and important, but I didn't realize who he was to the Marine Corps. And so they're like, if there's any generals are above coming, they're VIP. So you need to tell us. Well, John was a colonel. So I wrote his name down, not under the VIP list, you know, and we moved on. And I guess they were looking at the list and I get just screamed out from the back of the squad bay. And, you know, I'm like, I don't know what's going on. What did I do? And she's like, John Glenn, who is John Glenn? And I was like, do not know who he is? He was an astronaut and a senator. And she's like, and I just got reamed out for not understanding that he was more important. I tried to explain that she said, generals or above. And John was not a general. So therefore, you know, I did exactly what she told me to do. And I still got yelled at for it. So that was great. But yeah, that's kind of the whole roundabout reason that I joined the Marine Corps.

Brock Briggs  8:03  

That's a very good reason to join. And it sounds like, I'm sure that he really appreciated that story.

Martha MacPhee

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Again, I have heard that same exact rendition of the Marine Corps recruiters saying, oh, like, you can't handle this. And I have this theory that they actually have the easiest job recruiting of all of the branches. Because if they can just try to convince everybody who comes in that they can't do it. It's like, they either self select out or they're going to get the baddest people that are ready to come in and prove it wrong. And that's why the core is so strong. Like that is my theory. 

Martha MacPhee  8:42  

They’re so good at it. I was I mean, I want to say it was I don't think I was tricked into it, but I'm really glad they did what they did because I've enjoyed every minute of it, you know, so I was really glad that I guess the Air Force Office was out to lunch that day.

Brock Briggs  9:00  

Now it sounds like you ended up in exactly the right spot that you were meant to be. What did your grandpa think of that?

Martha MacPhee  9:09  

At first he did everything to try to get me to go into the airforce, honestly, which seems odd at the time. But I think when he was in, women were treated differently in the Marine Corps. And I think he knew that there was more opportunities, I got to choose my job. When you're a Marine Corps officer, we don't get to necessarily choose where we get to put in our top five and then whatever's kind of available and they have a weird scale rating when you come out. So the top thing I chose I actually got my second choice which when they read out what I got, I couldn't even remember what it was because I only wanted the number one choice so I remember going great. What is that? Do you know what that means? 

You know, looking around, which ended up being a really great thing too. I found that there's so many ways you can take things and I think just giving you know taking what you get and doing something amazing with it, you know, is easy too. I could have been upset I didn't get public affairs and got direct air support control. They are two wildly different, you know, things in the Marine Corps. But I really did enjoy it. And I got to learn a lot of different things I wouldn't have if the Marine Corps would have given me exactly what I asked for.

Brock Briggs  10:15  

You've made like a couple really interesting and like moving posts on LinkedIn about your grandfather and like, you guys being both Marines. And like what that means. What I'm curious to ask is like, what does the word legacy mean to you? And do you feel that that's playing out in your life or important?

Martha MacPhee  10:37  

Yeah, I think a lot of the reason I went into the Marine Corps was my grandfather, too. You know, I could say it was the recruiter saying, you know, we don't think you can do it. But I grew up for 18 years with my grandfather playing the role of my dad. So with that, I just grew up with us, like, really cool fighter pilot, you know, Blue Angel, you know, person that people would come around and be like, oh, my gosh, your grandfather was amazing. Oh, my gosh, yeah. 

And I don't think I even really appreciated it very much until I got into the Marine Corps too. He was always just kind of like, oh, he flew this plane, you know or oh, he did this. And, you know, it was kind of cool. But I never fully understood the impact of it until I kind of got to do you know and be in the situations that he was in. So it's a huge thing. And I don't think legacy just, you know, is for your family. Like, he's impacted a lot of people as well. And, you know, it's bigger than just your family, he just happens to be, you know, my family.

Brock Briggs  11:37  

I have really struggled to understand what the word legacy means. And I would, maybe we should just start out because I want to talk a little bit about this. What does it mean to you like, what does that word mean?

Martha MacPhee  11:51  

It's leaving something behind that, that people can continue to grow and shape and that, you know, changes maybe how things are done or how people feel. And it's something that anybody can do, it doesn't necessarily just have to be, you know, I think people think legacy as family members a lot of the time and kind of how I mentioned. That's not necessarily what it has to do. I can tell you plenty of people who I feel like have impacted something I've done and have left a legacy because of it, you know, they're not family. But their impact, I think, is the legacy.

Brock Briggs  12:29  

Who are maybe one or two of those people? And why have you felt that from them specifically?

Martha MacPhee  12:35  

I have friends that I've seen do some pretty incredible things who have been faced with some extreme challenges. And who could take that challenge and be like, oh, woe is me, you know, I've been dealt this card in life. And I'm gonna kind of give up but they've turned it around. And they've said, okay, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna start this organization. And because, yeah, like, ah, this is an issue for me but I can see so many other people it being an issue for two and then doing the opposite of what I've done. They're gonna take it. They're gonna go to bed. They're gonna be upset and you know, pass away from this disease. 

But instead, I'm gonna start a research group and I'm gonna do as much as I can, you know, for that research group to kind of go in and see what can be done. And I think that's a pretty incredible thing. And I'm always one of those people that I'm like, I don't have any time. How does this woman manage to teach full time and start an entire organization, you know, for cancer for more research because I'm already exhausted at the end of the day. So I'm just impressed with those people. And I think that they, you know, are the ones to be looked up for and people from then on out are going to benefit from what they've started and continue, you know, and people continue to contribute to it to this day.

Brock Briggs  13:55  

I think you're right about the idea that usually people refer to it in the sense of family. My wife and I have been talking about the idea of family and like having kids, what that looks like that whole kind of conversation and in an effort to understand whether kids are right thing for us, I've like gone to several friends and family members that I trust and ask them like why they had kids? Just like other than just like, that's what you do, you like grow up, you get married, you have kids like that's just like, you get the white picket fence the whole thing and or I guess maybe not shockingly, over half the people said, oh well legacy. 

And I was like, well, what does that mean? Like is that just an it’s interesting to me that I like your pitch of it, that it's something actually more of a feeling or something that is living beyond what a certain person just like has in this one life and I feel like we should all be trying to optimize for that or like, create an impact that is much larger than just what we can produce in one life.

Martha MacPhee  15:08  

No, I completely agree. And yeah, I mean, I get the legacy thing with kids too. But I'm also I've never wanted children, I guess too so. And I can't tell you how many people will tell me oh, you'll get there. And I'm 39. So if I'm not there at 39, I am pretty sure, you know, I've kind of I've passed it. But I think also, people need to realize that that's not everyone's path. I think that that's important too.

Brock Briggs  15:38  

Speaking to legacy and if we, as individuals, I think want to be maybe larger than just one life. And I'm going to say “if” because I'm guessing that there's some people that maybe don't care about that. 

Martha MacPhee

Yeah

Brock Briggs 

How do we optimize for legacy do you think?

Martha MacPhee  16:00  

I mean, everyone, I feel like some people think that they can't do something impactful or amazing and the role that they have, like the job that they have. Oh, I'm just a data analyst, oh, I'm just an event planner, you know, what kind of legacy will I leave? Or what kind of amazing thing can I do that can create something that other people will actually care about, you know? But I think there's so many things that people just forget, it's the little things making a data program, you know, that helps, you know, parents monitor kids online, you know. 

It's a legacy thing, it's save one kid save 100, you know. And I've seen event planners create, you know, events from nothing that have created money to help homeless veteran, you know, and do all this amazing stuff. And so it's little things and a lot of people don't get credit for it. But that doesn't mean that the program or the event that they created hasn't impacted someone and that's their legacy, whether people know it or not. But I think it's just I mean, anybody can create something and leave something behind even at the smallest, you know, job that they feel like isn't impactful.

Brock Briggs  17:11  

I think that that's well put. I'm guessing legacy probably was not what drew you to event planning, though.

Martha MacPhee  17:18  

It was not, no.

Brock Briggs  17:21  

What brought you to the field?

Martha MacPhee  17:24  

So I had deployed to Afghanistan for about almost about two years on and off from 2009 to 2012. And so the Marine Corps, I mean, obviously kind of gives everyone a break and a billet after a while after you've been doing, you know, a bunch of rotations in and out. So they sent me to Quantico, Virginia, to be in the diversity office. And I remember being like, oh, God, the diversity office. What am I gonna do? And they're like, you're gonna plan events. And I was like, oh, that's the last thing I wanna do. Like, I just got to be in Afghanistan, I was in a cool place. I got to do all this, you know, air traffic, you know, like controlling aircraft, dropping bombs and all this really cool stuff. And now you want me to plan like these dinky diversity events. And I remember thinking this was like, the worst place that they could have put me because I asked to be in policy and the diversity office is in policy. And again, trying to get back to the whole lobbying thing. 

Brock Briggs

You asked for it. 

Martha MacPhee

I asked for it. Don't get me wrong, but I wanted to, like do policy and change, you know, and if it was diversity policy, I would have been happy with it. But it's not where I got put, I got put in the events section of it. And I remember being like, you know, kind of a nightmare. But the nice thing was is I got to attend a lot of events. I remember there was a women's conference that I got to help plan and organize and bring in speakers and form the agenda and everything. 

And I remember being like, that was really cool. Like, I really enjoyed kind of formulating what these Marines would hear and who they would hear it from and the direction and kind of doing stuff like that. And one day, I was building out the budget for the events office and where we would go and all this stuff. And I had kind of taken down a really important diversity conference because I believed that they were taking a lot of money from the services to put on their own event and then not really giving the services credit for it. So I decided to kind of take that same diversity event to that same group of people and find three other conferences that we could use that money for and spend it there. 

And my colonel didn't really understand what I was doing. So he's like, we're having a meeting with the general you're just gonna have to tell him, you're just gonna have to explain to him while we're getting rid of this massive organization we've supported for diversity, so it doesn't look like we're not supporting, you know, this diverse group. Great. Okay. So I get up there, there are 20 colonels around the desk. The general standing at the top and I'm just sitting in a little chair, you know, in the back just a little notepad, you know, just chillin’, just getting, you know, waiting so I could say something. And it becomes, you know, my boss's turn and he turns it over to me and I stand up and I start briefing the general and the general said something and I don't remember exactly what it was. He was wrong. 

And instead of being like, sir, I see your point. I was like, no, sir, you're wrong. Actually, this, you know and you know, you kind of remember the whole room. You know, and guess because I kind of cut them off. I did everything, everything you could think of probably in this meeting wrong. And I remember after the fact, my boss gave me a little talk later. Like, there's a gentle way to speak to a general and I don't even know if I'd really spoke to many generals at that point in time. But I always just kind of tell it how it is. And you know, I'm forward and people like it or they hate it. Some people hate it. I probably got in trouble for it more times, like count in the Marine Corps for it. But my boss was like, you know, that's just something you know, here's a better way to put it. You know, was great about how he spoke to me about it. I was like, okay, cool. 

So about a week, maybe two weeks later, I get a call to come to the general's office. And this is like my boss's boss's boss. So it's not a normal call that you just get called up to the three stars office. As I think I was a lieutenant at the time. Maybe a captain, I can't remember. And so I was like, okay, cool. So I was like, oh, God, he's gonna yell at me like, this is the moment I know that this general is going to yell at me. That's fine. I'm prepared for it. I know what I did. I know, I'm going to call it and I have my whole speech, like how I'm gonna apologize to him, how I'm gonna make it better. So I go up there, he tells me to sit down. 

And he is like, so I have to put up someone for the protocol. We have to send everyone has to send up a captain to interview for the common other marine corps Protocol Office. I'm gonna send you. And I was like, I didn't even know what the word protocol meant at the time. I didn't know if I was getting coffee making copies, I had no idea. I had to, I literally googled the word when I got back to my desk. But right away, he said, DC Pentagon commandant. And I was like, I don't know what it is. I have no idea what this job entails. But I'm in. And he goes, but the thing is, you can't tell your bosses about it. You got to take leave because if they know they'll never let you go. 

And he's like, so if the commandant says you have to go, nobody can stop you. And I was like, great. So then I had to lie to all my bosses, which I apologize for later when they found out but I went up there. Obviously, I got the job. It was a bunch of, the interview was basically they had an event at the house. And we just had to talk around generals. And the reason he said he kind of gave you know me the opportunity to interview is because he knew that when generals talk to me, I wouldn't cower down to them. And that's kind of what they were looking for at the Protocol Office because all we do is deal with generals. And we have to tell generals what to do and where to move them, you know, and we have to speak forcefully when they're not paying attention to us. 

So he said, that's what they're looking for. You seem to do that well. And I was like, yes, sir. Thank you. I appreciate that. And the next thing I know, I'm headed up to the Pentagon to the protocol in the commandant’s office. And after I googled it to figure out exactly what I'd be doing, I Googled about everything else I did in that office. After that, we were so busy, I never got to go to the protocol School of Washington. So everything I did, I Googled about 10 minutes before I did it, which was great. But it was a lot of fun. I learned a lot. I met a lot of really interesting and cool people, we did a lot of events, the house, and if anybody doesn't know kind of what protocol is, I guess maybe I should also explain it because I know a lot of people don't know. It's basically

Brock Briggs  23:26  

Like me. I’m one of those people. I’m people. Please, humor me. 

Martha MacPhee  23:29  

So, protocol is how something should be done in a culture, community, or organization. So everyone does something differently when you approach them in a different community or culture. Marines might go hoorah, hey, you know, and that's how we know each other. But civilians might find that very alarming or weird but other countries have similar things. You don't always shake hands, you don't always wave, you don't always give a thumbs up, you know. Different things mean different things in each country and understanding those so that diplomatic relations can still work and no one gets in trouble for inadvertently, you know, making a gesture or saying something wrong. 

And one example would be is that you don't give knives or blades or stuff in a lot of countries in Asia because it means severing ties. So a gift for, you know, an ambassador from that area, we wouldn't want to be like, here's the Marine Corps knife. Because even though we think it's really, really cool and we're really stoked about it, it could show something completely different. And then the White House, you know, and then everyone gets involved and it becomes this crazy thing. There's a story where I think it was Jackie Kennedy went around in India and she had books that were bound with I think it was cow high, you know, and they praise cows over there. So that became a huge protocol incident because she didn't even, you know, it didn't even cross her mind. She thought she was doing something amazing by bringing these great gifts and it ended up not being. So it's kind of what we do. When we go places, we do a lot of research for the guests that the commandant is gonna bring with him. 

We do, you know, maybe what he should wear or what he should talk about, if there's something that they don't talk about, it's something they prefer to talk about, we'll get with the other protocol officers and we'll talk a lot about their backgrounds, things that are off limits so that they don't be like, hey, how's your wife, Marilyn? And Marilyn left him, you know, for another man, you know, two weeks ago. So we do all that background stuff so that we can get all of this information ready for him so those meetings go off without a hitch because little things you wouldn't believe how little things said, you know, can turn a meeting sour really, really fast when you're trying to do a lot of good at them.

Brock Briggs  25:46  

It's interesting the attention to detail of and especially when we're talking about foreign relations and like those cultural dynamics that are playing into it because obviously, I'm familiar with the word protocol. But this is like just a general way of doing things. But this is like, this isn't like just the way of doing things. It's like this is how to say it, how to act on like, just a very, very granular level of detail.

Martha MacPhee  26:13  

Yeah, it is. And there's I mean, there's a lot to it. There's a lot of things I just didn't know, you just assume they kind of all walk into a meeting and everything's great. But everyone's strategically placed in those meetings. You have silverware set up particular ways for particular countries. You have food that won't be served. You have things that won't be talked about, you know. You have pins that are specifically worn, you know, for certain reasons. You have gifts that are given at specific times, music that will be played, certain music that will be played, you know. And it's just all the stuff from when those people walk in and it's anyone, it's all the Joint Chiefs, you know, it's all the Chiefs of Staff, it's the Presidents, vice presidents, you know. It's all of our advisors and administer, you know, stuff like that, that walk in. They all all have the same thing. So it looks really easy from the outside and it is extremely stressful for all of us on the inside.

Brock Briggs  27:09  

I can imagine that you don't want to be the person that's responsible for that type of misstep that leads to some kind of altercation. 

Martha MacPhee

Yeah

Brock Briggs

What is the most bizarre, like piece of protocol or whatever you want to call it, some little minut thing that just was completely outlandish? Or maybe even funny that you think you kind of witnessed that matter?

Martha MacPhee  27:34  

Oh, gosh! I know, I laugh because I know we were trying to give a knife to one of the countries that you don't normally that, you know, you'd sever ties if you gave it to them. But we found out that their general really wanted one. So we had to go through the entire White House to get this knife, they wanted it. But the optics, you know, we didn't know how the optics would look. So I mean, there's little things, it's just everything you know, goes through, we find out a lot of background for the gifts and what they want. I think he might have been a general from Columbia, like their marine had. And he really wanted a fighter pilot. Yeah, he was like an infantry type guy from but he always wanted one of those puffy fighter pilot jackets. So we had to find all these squadrons and we got all these cool patches for him. 

And he tried it on and he never took it off. Like once he put it on that man walked around the rest of the night because he was just so excited about this, you know, fighter pilot jacket. I've had people that don't get along at events. And we have to make sure that they stay separated on opposite sides of the table. And once there's quite a few of them. Or, you know, there's just other generals that don't like other, there's a bunch of reasons. So also there’s a dinner table, where you're sticking everyone side by side, but then this person can't be across from this person. But then this person can't be a catty corner from this person. And then this person can't sit next to them, you know, so you're like, but then this person is senior to this person, so they can't be on this side. 

So it's a lot of, I mean, trying to figure out who can be at these dinners with other people who to invite and then where they can sit and their replacement. And nobody thinks of all that because everyone seems very cheery and very happy because the cameras are rolling. There's important people in the room and no one's gonna say I do not like this person. I don't want to sit near them. But we all know. So there's a lot of times where you'll see you know, people come up to people you're like, this isn't gonna end like they're shaking hands. This is you know and there's cameras, but most of them are pretty good. 

They're politicians, you know, are in some of the mindset of the politician where, you know, they're going to be smiles. They're going to shake hands and grit their teeth, you know, and act like everything is completely normal. So it's interesting knowing all that and seeing it happen because people seeing it through the cameras or on TV, just they're like, oh, all these people really love each other. Like, you know, they're all really happy to be there together. And that's just, you know, not always the case.

Brock Briggs  30:11  

You sound like a professional doer, like in the movies where there's just like that person that's like, got the clipboard and they're like, you know, we've got breakfast at this time, you know, like, this, this, this. Like, given the full scoop on like kind of like an executive assistant but on steroids almost.

Martha MacPhee  30:31  

Yeah. And I mean, that's exactly what we do. Luckily, the commandant has aides to keep him, I guess, on track for the military stuff. We just make sure all the background stuff before he gets there is set and ready to go. So yeah, it's a little bit of both, I'd say. Sure.

Brock Briggs  30:48  

This is not gonna be set in a way to diminish the importance of that but like, in your experience and time, they're seeing that how much of that do you think is necessary? Like, if you were to come in and say, we're gonna stop doing this? 

Martha MacPhee

Yeah

Brock Briggs 

Like, is there actually room for that kind of thing? Or are all of those things like, have the utmost importance that like, if we don't do this thing, this will be very bad.

Martha MacPhee  31:19  

No. And I mean, you can look through all the protocol blips in history, there's been a billion of them that people have done something, you know, wrong or stupid or given something away that they shouldn't have. But I think more than anything, it's making your guests feel comfortable. So when you bring in someone from another country, you wanna know their customs and courtesies because you don't want to put them in an awkward situation where you talk about something that they don't like or you have something on the table that is against their religion to eat. Or you're sitting them, you know, you're sitting next to them, someone you know, that they dislike, you know. Or they don't share political opinions with and that could cause an issue. 

So a lot of it's about comfort, you know, these are your guests, these are the people you're trying to impress, these are the people that you want to work with their countries, maybe in peacetime or wartime, or whatever it may be. And you don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. So it's definitely needed. And like I said, if something does go wrong and you do put something in front of them that you know or you say something or give them a gift that is inappropriate. I mean, that's never I guess, I don't want to say it's never started a war. I'm sure somewhere it possibly has started a war. 

But I think a lot of people understand now, too, that customs are very different. And so a lot of its accidents. And I think sometimes if you come back and be like, we're so sorry, we didn't realize this offended you, you know. Most people are like, great, we get it, you know, that's not a big deal. I think it's that you try to make them feel comfortable because they're coming to see you, you know. You're there in your boss's home. And it's important for you, I mean, anybody, if anybody comes to your house, you're not going to be like, let's do everything we can to offend you know, these people. So it's kind of it's just something similar.

Brock Briggs  33:03  

How do you train for that level of detail? I have to imagine there's people just like sitting around just dreaming up like every possible negative outcome of like, well, if this happens like this, is that what it is? Or is there just kind of like a running, hey, these are the things that we need to be checking on?

Martha MacPhee  33:22  

A lot of Google, got a lot of Googling, I would say, there is a protocol School of Washington that a lot of protocol officers in DC will go to and not just officers, but civilian, who, you know, working in the White House and whoever. It's a really great school, it's a really expensive school, but I didn't get a chance to go to it because we were so busy. And it's a couple months, you know, it's not a couple of months, but I think it's like a month or something that we just didn't have the time to send me to it. But luckily, a lot of people it's not like they just turn over the whole protocol office at once either so someone else in the office that always been or a couple people that always been to the protocol school.

Plus, you have people who work in and around the common on like the aides and stuff who you know, have been there and have seen, you know, this gift worked or this different. And then the other thing is we call it the protocol offices. And we're like, hey, you know, we want to give your boss this gift. We're going to sit him between here's the seating chart, we're going to play this music, here's our menu and they'll come back and being like, absolutely not on the menu. The music is fine, do not sit down by this person, you know, do not do this, the gift looks great. But we have you know, we do the same thing. They ask us the same questions. And so we work with those offices to give them all the details so that they can tell us before the incident happens. 

You know if that comes off as offensive or if their boss just won't like get in some people. There's a difference between protocol and preferences. And a lot of very senior people just, I mean, don't like the smell of ketchup, so they don't want ketchup anywhere you know, and that's not a protocol thing. But again, you're trying not to offend your guests and if that's what really bothers them is the smell of ketchup, you know, we're not going to have a meal with ketchup involved or on the table or around. And that's fine. And that's what we do. So there are a lot of preferences out there that I will say to we try to accommodate for.

Brock Briggs  35:16  

What do you think is the most challenging event or kind of series of events may be that you ever had to work or be a part of?

Martha MacPhee  35:28  

So I was the deputy director of security and military ops for the inauguration. And the committee that I was on JCCIC, the Joint Congressional. I can't remember the whole inauguration ceremonies, can't remember the whole acronym. 

Brock Briggs 

Was it with President Trump?

Martha MacPhee

It would have been, yeah. 

Brock Briggs 

Okay

Martha MacPhee

And it starts off. I mean, I guess the whole time, it's a bipartisan committee because when you join, you have no idea of Kanye West, you know, is gonna win and be president. So it's made up of actual Democrat and Republican staff members from the Senate and the House. And then the leaders of JCCIC, what they call it, the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies is made up of Republican and Democrat, both representatives and senators who sit on that committee and make a lot of decisions. 

I think there's about 24 of us that were up in the pretty much the highest point in the Capitol. We were on the like the fourth floor or something in it, we were in the almost like the right by the big tower, the dome, right by the dome. Because every time an aircraft sailors and I know we were up high, every time an aircraft came close to the capitol and didn't, you know, didn't chime in, we got the alarm system. The rest of the Capitol wouldn't get it. But we were high up so they gave us a minute to come down. So we would always be evacuating and running out of the Capitol and it happened twice. And everyone be like, what are you guys doing? And we're like, okay, we don't hear the alarm. But there's and then no, and like it would solve itself by the time we got outside and then we'd just be the only ones to evacuate. So that's how I knew we were like, we must have been the highest people up for that reason. 

Brock Briggs  37:07  

Oh, wow! That is really interesting. You're gonna have to like give me the lowdown on like what this process looks like. Because I don't think that I can think of offhand other than like, maybe a major worldwide sporting event, like the most important event that happens like every few years and like the logistics behind that. I've just got to be crazy.

Martha MacPhee  37:32  

They're insane. And you have to have a great team. We split up everything from someone's in charge of volunteers. Our military and security team was actually made up of a Capitol Police Commander, a retired colonel, myself and a few protocol folks that were in the capitol that would help around so we would meet with every service that you can think of that would be there from FBI to Secret Service to Capitol Police to Capitol Metro to Bomb Squad and all of that and tried to get them we couldn't control anything they did. Obviously Martha MacPhee is not gonna be like, hey, Secret Service, listen to me follow, you know, they could care less. 

But what we wanted to do was make sure that they all talked and make sure they knew what was going on security wise. So if someone were bringing people in certain doors or certain directions, one, you know, police force didn't get nervous, you know, what someone else was doing and where they were at. Plus, we also had to have procedures for something happened on the platform, right? So who would go where first and when and who would jump on people and drag people out. And who would go where because it was different for everyone. The Capitol Police would get, you know, the senators, but you have Secret Service getting the President's and you know, you have, you know, other people doing different things. So it was just making sure if something happened, all of them knew what each other was about to do.

Brock Briggs  39:03  

How about contingency plan? 

Martha MacPhee  39:06  

Yeah, yeah. And we had, you know, you have a couple places that you'll do it if things happen. So, you know, we have other locations that everyone's got to go and look at and see. And just a bunch of other things. I was in charge of the badges. So I had to make sure I get everyone approved for certain spots all over. It was one of my jobs. I think there was like 15,000 badges that I had to click accept on, which was like the most annoying part of my job because they would do background checks and stuff, but I had to put them in certain spots. So people got badges for certain locations because we have a lot of volunteers and that doesn't necessarily mean I want the volunteer on the platform but they might be able to escort someone you know, outside in the plaza or down where people were sitting. 

And they just couldn't come through certain areas or certain doors so we were giving people access to various locations throughout which was a big thing. And then the military side of it, we had a lot of people there. From the military, whether they were just outside being security, we had a lot of security. We had obviously HMX Marine 1 would come in, you know, they land on the front lawn. You have the parade that has the military in it that goes by for the cameras. You have the cordons inside which I'm not even sure how much is captured of those cordons. But anytime the President walks through certain parts of the Capitol, there are military cordons on both sides of him as he walks through. So we have all those setup, we actually set that we practice this, we set up all the tapes on the floor. And we put up signs that say do not remove the tapes. The cleaners came in the next morning and removed all of the tapes and the signs on the walls. 

So the morning of we just had to play a guessing game on where the cordon, it was great. And HMX-1 decided they were gonna have a new pilot. And he didn't have a badge so he couldn't get out of his aircraft. So we had to handshake him a badge so no one could see. And you know, then he just clipped it on and just walked straight in. So you know, not everything that can go wrong does go wrong, but there's just a lot of things you can't plan. You cannot plan for as much as you can. And you just Capitol Police were briefed that the badgers could go in different locations even though we gave them slides and PowerPoint, so they wouldn't let certain people that were supposed to be escorting certain people come in. And I had to run around and tell you know, 200 Capitol Police, that whatever someone briefed them the wrong thing, you know. 

I think I walked like a marathon, you know, 26 miles that day just booking it all around. But it came together. I got to be in some really cool locations. I think when Trump was walking out to watch the parade, I was behind one of the pillars and I have a little picture. I'm hanging out with a secret service guy and he's on one ear set. And I'm on another and we're like, where is he? He's like, he's coming. And he's like, are they ready? I was like, yeah, you know, so we're just kind of going back and forth, waiting on things to happen, which was cool. And it's just kind of cool to see all that happen. You know, it's a thing everyone's watching. It's a thing you've watched since you were little, you know and now you're just standing behind a pole, three feet, you know, from it all taking place. And no one even knows you're there. So it's fun and exciting to watch. And I love being up close and getting to see, I guess, you know, just getting to see behind the curtain and all that stuff is just, it's a really cool experience.

Brock Briggs  42:27  

Do you get a lot of satisfaction personally from seeing all of that, you know, probably 1000s and 1000s of hours of work going into, you know, like a two to three hour time window?

Martha MacPhee  42:40  

Yeah, I do. I love it. And everyone's like, oh, do you get to meet because there's a ton of celebrities or a ton of really cool generals, that kind of stuff. And they're like, oh, but you get to meet so many cool people. And I don't, most of the time, I am running around too much. So I either have a volunteer and assistant briefing or escorting, you know, it's too much to do to escort someone from one place to the other or to get them a drink or to say hi. So most of the time, I don't get to meet the really cool and important people. And the other thing is if I do, I'm usually briefing them. So I'm professional where I just don't say can I get a picture with you? You know, usually like, here's the brief and the whole time I'm like, man, it would be cool if I got a pic.

I'd love to get a picture, you know, but I'm just like, nope, alright, here's what you need to know, sir. Here's everything you're gonna do. Here's how you're gonna walk, here's where the podium is, here's you know, whatever it may be. And then I go back and I do my job. Sometimes I don't get to see the really cool events if they're making a really big speech, you know or they're doing this and that. I didn't get to see the swearing. I don't think I got to see the swearing in you know, actually, I was running, you know, back behind the scenes doing 1000 other things. So, yes, I love it all. But yeah, some people think I get to do really cool things. And sometimes I miss the really cool things and a really cool people.

Brock Briggs  43:59  

It sounds like that would be like a career making event or something to be part of. Is that how is that regarded when it comes to your time in the Marine Corps? I'm sure that there's only so many people that I can say that they've done that, you know, there's only an election every so many years. And you know, those people are probably very few and far between.

Martha MacPhee  44:22  

Yeah, for sure. I think people see it especially like, oh, what kind of events do you put on like weddings? And I was like, oh, bigger. Like, what? And I'm like, have you seen an inauguration on TV before? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, kind of like that. But yeah, I mean, it has helped for sure open some doors that I've had that kind of protocol experience or that level of experience and continuing to build on that experience doing more events with presidents and stuff like that has helped along the way too. Right after that, I got a job with a PR firm and international PR firm which I still do work for them today, Susan Davis International. They're phenomenal. 

And when I applied for the job, they were doing a Women's Military Conference that I had attended when I was in the diversity office and had to help build the agenda for and they put it on. So I remember sending Susan Davis, who is the owner, a message on LinkedIn. And I was like, I would be perfect for this job. I'm in the military, have been to this conference before, done events. Here's what I've done, you know. And I just sent her this little LinkedIn, you know, note and she was very nice. And she wrote me back and she said, thanks. I just don't think you're what we're looking for. But I appreciate you sending me this note anyways. And of course, me being the person I told you, where I don't take no very well at all. I said, actually, I’m exactly what you're looking for.

Here’s three reasons why and you should meet with me, you know, as soon as possible kind of thing before, you know, I'm captured by someone else. And she writes me back and said, okay, be here tomorrow at 11. And I remember going, I have to work tomorrow. Like I had to lie to my job a little bit and just be like, I'm a little sick today. I must go somewhere else. And so I showed up at her office. And we talked for about three hours. I think I met her, met her VP. I met the director of events at the time who was leaving. And by the end of it, I remember she goes I brought you in here to tell you to be nice. And to show you how you wouldn't be a good fit in this office. She goes, but I'll send you an offer letter by the end of the week. And I remember being like, yes!

Brock Briggs  46:34  

So did you surprise her and change her mind?

Martha MacPhee  46:38  

I must have. You know, I don't know, sometimes I feel like if I can just get in the door and let you know, get me to talk to you for just a little bit I can convince, you know, I can change your mind. So I don't know. I don't know, she thought maybe my skill sets were different than what she was looking for. And once I got to describe them. I know people say when you come out of the military too, you've got all this military stuff that doesn't translate very well into the civilian world. So maybe allowing me to tell her, you know what I did in relationship to protocol. Like, we had to do a lot of events. I had to, you know, be on the ground to escort people and do VIPs and stuff didn't translate the way I had put it online. And I think getting to tell her what I did help translate a lot of that for her.

Brock Briggs  47:22  

Yeah, there's a lot of things that people learn in the military that doesn't translate, but I can safely say that that probably does translate. It's the exact same thing in fact. If that was the case, you kind of took that a different direction than I thought that you would. I appreciate you sharing that when I originally meant like, that was really good. We’re gonna talk about that anyway. But I guess when I said like a career making thing, I was almost implying like staying in the Marine Corps. And so then that kind of tees up like why did you get out.

Martha MacPhee  48:05  

So I got out in 2015. Trump's thing was obviously 2017. But I stayed in the IRR. So I had to come out of the IRR to be a reservist to do the inauguration, actually. But honestly, the big truth of it was is that I had been in the Pentagon. I had worked for four stars, been surrounded by four stars. And I was about to be sent to, you know, California to have a major, you know, tell me what to do all of a sudden and knowing me and how I just don't take orders super well. I just thought that maybe this was, you know, a good time to get out on the high point is what I felt like was my career in the Marine Corps, where I knew I had generals who could help me. I knew I had job opportunities in DC. I knew kind of what I wanted to do at that point, which was do more events and I would have to go back to controlling aircraft, which was fine. 

But it wasn't my lifelong dream. It was just something the Marine Corps kind of put me in to do like I said, I didn't get my first spot, which was public affairs. I got my second one which was direct the air support control. So when I finally found out yeah, okay, this is where I wanna be. And these are kind of the people I wanna do it with. That was my point where I was like, okay, I'm not gonna get this if I go back, you know, and do normal things in the fleet again. This is like the high point I felt at my career for the Marine Corps. And I decided to get out on a high note, I guess, really. And then I got to continue doing what exactly what I wanted to do instead of kind of having the Marine Corps tell me this is what we're going to have you do.

Brock Briggs  49:44  

Sounds like that was the right move for you personally, like you are kind of optimizing for your interests. And it sounds like that would have been the high point and so I can't argue. I don't think that that was probably what is the right visit isn't there. I kind of wanna like back shift to like what we were just talking about, then you were saying that you maybe like weren't presenting your experience very well or it could have been better. Where do you think the disconnect was like? Did you learn anything from that experience? I was like, oh, I like should have put it this way? Or did you have some big revelation about how to present yourself to a future employer or a civilian employer?

Martha MacPhee  50:33  

Yeah, I think I kind of just assumed protocol meant the same thing to everyone. And it doesn't always. Sometimes it means it's just a senior level person picking out gifts and telling someone how to walk and shake hands. And that's not all of what my office did. We built dinners. We built programs, we built invitation lists. You know, we did a bunch of other stuff that was more in the event planning realm. And I think because I never went to school for it and hadn't seen any other offices, I just assumed that protocol meant to everyone was all of this stuff, not just certain things. And my boss had been in and around the world. She's done events for presidents and stuff like that. And she's seen it done a billion different ways. 

But she's never really seen. She's never done it in the military sense. So I think she thought the military was gonna be very different than the civilian world for me. And she was looking for someone who had done it, I think more in the civilian world because that's what she understood. And when we started talking, she realized, oh, okay, you know, it's not that much different. You really do a lot of the same things, either we do here. Or you do a lot of the same things that I would expect, you know, a civilian, you know, working in the civilian type world to do. And I think that's what really, I guess worked for her in that sense.

Brock Briggs  51:54  

That's such just like a classic problem of getting out of the service. And you're like trying to explain and interpret your backstory and resume to a new employer. And, you know, kind of just, it's easy to make a lot of assumptions about what is known and even a standard word like that.

Martha MacPhee  52:15  

Well, I could have told you, that's what I thought all protocol offices do. But when now I talk to other protocol friends and they do different things. It's similar. But that doesn't mean we all have the same, you know, job, I guess, the same job duties. And so I think that's what made it you know, just understanding that it doesn't mean the same no matter what you do, I could say controlling aircraft and controlling aircraft, everyone assumes that I was air traffic control, but I wasn't. I take, you know, aircraft from air traffic controllers to ground units, but I control aircrafts. So I think we're just have a lot of meetings and coming out of the military, you just assume everyone gets it. Everyone knows what a direct air support controller does because I've done it for, you know, several years. So you know, that's obvious. And it's just not the case.

Brock Briggs  53:01  

Experiences like that, I feel like we all need to, like have them every once in a while to realize like, how, not saying that you are but like, we all need a reminder that like there are much bigger things that are going on other than just ourselves. And it's so easy to think about. Just like our own frame of reference is kind of just the limits of what our imagination is and sometimes even just a little bit of exposure to hearing, like oh, I think it means this and you're like, what? Like the thought of it is even hard to comprehend.

Martha MacPhee  53:38  

I learned that the Marine Corps doesn't always do that, you know, everything we do in the Marine Corps is not how everybody understands and does things, you know, in the civilian sense. It's very different. And some of its, you know, very similar but it's just I realized that a lot as I grow.

Brock Briggs  53:54  

Slightly more yelling in one than the other, but somewhat similar. I'm really interested to kind of like, try to wrap up this event planning into like a nice bow. I think that there's probably a lot of interesting things that we could take away from your experience and like learning in that. If you were to teach a class on event planning and you had 30 minutes to an hour to do it, what are the most important things that you would cover? And what would that look like?

Martha MacPhee  54:33  

So I think the biggest thing is that people come in with this grand idea of like, I've seen it on TV or I've seen another nonprofit that didn't have any money you know, that did it this way. And everything is gonna be different because they might have seen this happen in the middle of Wyoming and then in DC it's gonna cost you 20 times as much. They may be a nonprofit which gets a lot of things comped for them along the way. They get Canva, you know, and some of the Google you know and stuff like that, that is for profit organization that might be brand new. 

So a lot of I mean, you can't just say I've seen an organization do it for really cheap. This is what I want without understanding, you know, the background and where it was and knowing that prices in different locations, different hotels, different areas, different times of the year. You can do something, you know, in December when a lot of people are vacationing, buy something in the middle of the summer when people wanna actually go somewhere and they have the time and they don't have to take off work, you know, and do all this kind of stuff. So a lot of people wanna do it. Of course, the best time of the year and the biggest city of the year using all the you know, the best sources online and that's not the case. 

So people have to come in with a reasonable expectation, that's the biggest thing. I think that it's really hard for me to get across to a lot of clients is that they have to have reasonable expectations for things because you saw something, you know, go really well. We don't know the time they put it on. You know, they put it on a different time, a different location, you know, using different products. Sometimes because they’re nonprofit AV companies will give them a bigger break and you’re for profit and they're not going to give you the same, you know, assistance that they would and stuff like that. So expectation coming into it would be a huge thing and sitting down and looking at other events that are in where you wanna be. 

So if you know, you wanna go to DC in June and you wanna be at a Marriott hotel because you love Marriott Hotels and you want it to be downtown, taking a look at another conference and finding out how much it costs for them to actually put it on during that time. And some easy ways to do that without contacting them or looking at how much they're charging people to attend. Is it $600? You know, is it $400? Is it $100 and kind of looking at their production value and stuff like that. But so starting point with reasonable expectations would be my biggest thing. And then a lot of people are set on one hotel or one AV company or one product. And I always go out and get bids. 

And the reason I go out and get bids from different companies is you get to see if someone's really kind of screwing you over a little bit and they're charging a huge fee. And then you also get to go back and negotiate because you can say, okay, great. So you wanna charge me $125,000? And but these two companies wanna charge me 80. Can we meet somewhere in the middle? Because I know you're the production company I want because I value you. But there's a disconnect somewhere, you know, you're charging a lot more. And I wanna know why. And sometimes they'll say yeah, okay, we were giving you a 4k big screen and these people aren't. So that's why it's more expensive. But we can give you a regular screen that'll give you, you know, good production. If you don't mind a little less, you know, clear, you know, picture, then we can meet you somewhere. 

And so having that to be able to negotiate with people is huge because a lot of people were like, no, we already have our production company. No, we already have our location. No, we already have, you know, this. And I think they're doing themselves a disservice to setting themselves up for one. And even if you know you're going to use it getting those other people to negotiate, you know, a way to reasonably negotiate sometimes is a good way to do it. Those are my big starters, I think for companies. And then starting as early as possible, a lot of people will come to me be like, oh, we need a bunch of sponsors. And it's in two months and people and companies build their sponsorships a year out. That's when they build their budgets. And then they're like, yeah, but they always put money aside.

And it's like, yes, but you're competing with 45,000 other organizations that are also competing for that set aside money at the exact same time. So starting as early as possible in the planning stages, even if it's a small idea in your head, is the best thing to do. Because you can start putting it in front of people in their budgets. And if they don't end up going with it, then their money just gets moved into for sponsorships just moved into their bigger budget where other people can compete. And that's fine. And I think so early, reasonable, you know, request, I guess and I mean, those are my biggest ones.

Brock Briggs  59:35  

It's interesting that you took a completely different direction. I would say no, it's good, though. It's good. 

Martha MacPhee  

Okay

Brock Briggs

And I guess I was kind of imagining that it would be like, hey, there was this, you need to just have this focus on attention to detail or whatever. It's interesting that so much of that is driven by price and obviously events cost money and I obviously know that but it's interesting to me that you like that was kind of the focal point of what you believe is most important.

Martha MacPhee  1:00:10  

Yeah, and attention to detail is big, but that's really more for the event planner than it is for the person tells us what we want. And then we put in the amount of detail, you know, that they are looking for in it. So I don't know if I would say I would put that on the responsibility of the person, you know, I would put that on the event planner and they might be the event planner, too. Don't get me wrong. But some people can spend all day on detail and no one ever notices it. So yeah, attention to detail is great, but I don't know. I've done so many things from like, oh, the crowd is gonna love, you know, like, they're gonna get it. I'm gonna put whatever it is somewhere. And then no one ever mentions it. No one ever notices it because there's so many other things going on. Attention to detail is important, but it is not always the most important, I guess, thing I would say to focus on. 

Brock Briggs  1:01:07  

Okay. Okay, bear in mind. You recently helped put on the Military Influencer Conference a couple months ago. I am dying to hear all about that. Give us the rundown. How did it go? What was your involvement?

Martha MacPhee  1:01:23  

I would say my biggest and it's probably another good thing that anybody making events is that when you go to new hotels, which the Resort World is a new hotel. Because they're new, they're trying to drum up business, right? So they give you a lot of discounts and a lot of reasons to come to their hotel, multi year contracts, discounts in certain areas. And I've had other hotels do something similar. And sometimes it's amazing. But they do this too because they're having a lot of growing pains in themselves. So a lot of questions we ask. They're like, oh, I don't know, we'll get back to you in three weeks where it was a normal question you could ask any hotel, right? And they will get back to you. And it wasn't. I'm not saying it was necessarily their fault. They just hadn't had that question come up before, were the first ones to ask it. So now they have to go through the process to figure out what their process is for it.

Brock Briggs  1:02:12  

What was something that that happened with?

Martha MacPhee  1:02:14  

So a lot of it was oriented around food. We would ask if we could bring in certain products or we could do certain setups. And they're like, we've never done that before. We'll have to find someone in the outside who can, you know, make a donut bar. And then but it would take them a while because they had to go through all of A, they had to get it approved. They had to build something to send it out. And then they had to see who brought it back in because they make money from it too, right? So they get a vendor, they find out how much that vendor is, how much they can sell it to us for that. And then how much our final prices, which isn't overnight. 

And so when you ask for a simple donut bar that you would assume you know, a hotel in Vegas is probably done 1000 times, the first time it happened. They're like, oh, and it took like a month and a half, you know, and so my people were trying to do is like, how much is it gonna cost? How much we need to know, you know, we're getting ready to give you money. And I'm like, I don't know and I don't know how to get you this information. And one of their assistants had told me that there would be white tablecloths, and I'm like, great. So we don't order any tablecloths, except for the gala. And then two days before the conference, they say okay, so we'll just have the white tablecloth and the main person was like, oh, this is a linen free hotel. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? 

And she's like, yeah and I was like, oh, no, I have an email like your assistant. And she goes, oh, she worked at another hotel. She must have been mistaken. We don't have that here. Because she was brand new, it was only like day two for her. And I was like, okay, so it's a lot of, you know what I mean? It's a lot of you're going through the growing pains with them. And I had a similar experience to a hotel in Norfolk, they were brand new, we got a great deal and a discount for being one of the first ones. I had the program drawn up because they had all our rooms were in A, B, C, D, and F. Well, in between the time that they had shown us the map, they decided to change it to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, so everyone was headed to A, B, which they had moved rooms. They had made their other ballroom, A, B, C, and D. 

So now when you go into their hotel room and you're looking for ballroom A. Ballroom A is not, we're in ballroom 1. And I couldn't make that change because when I showed up, I saw it. And so everything's printed, everything's ready. You know, we have a day. And so you go through a lot of the growing pains. So while people are like, oh, it's amazing. This is a brand new hotel so they're giving us these amazing discounts. Also know that you are going to have to go through some of the, you know, the same headaches that other people, you're their experiment child like you're there, you know, you're going through all of this when they do it and they're experimenting a lot with what they do with you with how they're gonna do it with other people. And so MIC was fun, but the hotel was great. I will say in the end I love that hotel and I loved everyone I worked with but we did have, you know, we were some of their experimentations for sure in being in conference there. 

Brock Briggs  1:05:08  

Yeah, well, just kind of the first time somewhere, there's just so much to figure out. Was that your first year being involved with it?

Martha MacPhee  1:05:17  

It was, yeah, I tried to go to it several times when it was in DC. And I always had events going on when it was happening. And I never got to go and I remember always being so upset because it looks so cool. And I was so you know, I really wanted to go before. 

Brock Briggs  1:05:31  

Yeah, every time somebody comes on that has been like, affiliated with it at some way. I'm always curious to ask and kind of, gotta get some hype and like kick it down the road a little bit and build some anticipation for the upcoming year. So that's really interesting. And I guess, are you going to be participating in a event capacity this upcoming?

Martha MacPhee  1:05:53  

Yep. I'm working with Cortez to help plan this one. And it's gonna be bigger and better. And we have a lot of really cool things that we haven't done before. And I won't give them out just yet. But it is bigger. We're doing a lot more things I know, I'm so sorry but

Brock Briggs  1:06:08  

You knew I was gonna ask, like, okay, well, you're gonna like 

Martha MacPhee  1:06:13  

Stay glued to the MIC webpage and their social media because they have a lot of really cool things that they're working on. Even, I'm excited for a few of them. And I really wanna say what I'm really excited for and I can't. I'm so sorry. But you know, I think it'd be really hyped. What do you guys see what was going on. And one thing I did wanna mention, which I don't think I ever told Mark Harper is that he called me up. And Rob Riggle came this time, the comedian, the Marine. 

And I've always wanted to meet him because I just thought, you know, he was the coolest. And he's a Marine. Like, why would I not wanna meet him? But of course, I'm doing the event planning thing. I don't have time to go, you know, find him and say hi, do any of that if he's not in my when I'm working on or doing. And I was working on the gala in the office and I get a call from Mark. And he's like, hey, got Rob to go with me. I need to stash him somewhere. Do you got anywhere I can put him? And I was like, I mean, you can bring him to the office, I guess I don't know.

Brock Briggs 

Got a seat for him right here.

Martha MacPhee

He's like, okay, I'll bring him there. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so exciting. And so I tried to be real cool. I was like, nice to meet you, Mr. Riggle. And then I went back to my computer, you know and started just typing away because we're having a little meeting on the gala at the time. But he was like, you know, three chairs away from me. And I was just I think it was like grinning ear to ear like, this is the coolest like and I'm like texting friends. Like I'm sitting beside Rob Riggle right now just so you know, you know. And I remember we had a bunch of cookies in there. And if anybody ever wants to get Robert a gift, he really loved our cookies. 

They were it was like peanuts and chocolate and pretzels. And he was just so amazed that all of it was combined into one cookie that he had to show the whole room that these cookies. They were actually really good cookies, but he was really shocked by it and loved it. And I actually got to take a picture with him because it was so much time. But I looked at Mark and I was like can I get a photo with him while he's just chillin’ and hanging out here? And he was great. And I had told Mark that I had and I pre did the route that he was gonna walk back behind the catering behind so he wouldn't get bombarded with the crowd in the front. 

So I did the walkthrough just like I wouldn't protocol and make sure everything was clear. I told the kitchen guys, you know, someone important was coming through, check the doors, everything was great. 20 minutes later, we do the same walk through. A, the kitchen people have put everything in the way that they possibly could while we're so you know, moving out, you know, things are like great. I get to the door and it's locked. And I can't and I'm like, oh my God. And I look at the people around me like and they're like, oh yeah, it's locked. You have to go around to the front. So then I just take off sprinting around, you know, the whole thing through the crowd of people and I had to come through and unlock and apologize and I was like, so sorry. So I don't think Mark ever understood how excited I was about that little opportunity that he gave me and also how embarrassed I was that the door was locked when I went to escort Rob Riggle somewhere but

Brock Briggs  1:09:11  

Mark said you have one job, make sure that

Martha MacPhee  1:09:16  

I know I had one job and I failed at it and it was fine. Luckily Rob Riggle is wonderful and could care less about the whole situation so he did really good and everyone really really loved

Brock Briggs  1:09:28  

Is he coming this year?

Martha MacPhee  1:09:30  

That I do not know, that I honestly don't know if I give you a yes or a wink or anything like that. I do not know.

Brock Briggs  1:09:37  

Okay, I am dying to have him on the podcast and Rob, I know you're listening. Just come on the show, man like quit hold now. He seems like a great guy and everybody has raving reviews. So we'll keep our fingers crossed for this year. 

Martha MacPhee  

Perfect!

Brock Briggs 

One of the last things that I wanna talk about with you is you are now self-employed. Do you consider yourself a consultant for what you do? 

Martha MacPhee

Yep

Brock Briggs 

Why go self employed?

Martha MacPhee  1:10:11  

Because I really wanted to focus on military and veterans. I've done a lot of civilian type of events and they're great. They're different. And every time I do civilian events, it kind of feels like work kind of feels like I'm working. And when I do military and veteran events, it feels like I'm talking to friends, I'm talking to family, we have inside jokes. We talk more about work. We could talk about that time, we were both in Afghanistan. Oh, did you? Oh, you know, so and so. Oh, have you met this general? Oh, have you, you know, been to this event? Oh, you know, we know someone. Everybody I've worked with, I think we have like, it's like seven degrees of everyone. I know in the military, this person also, you know, could talk about that. And we just have that common bond. 

So when I start to work on their events, it doesn't feel like work. I get excited about it. I get excited. I mean, I've had, I can tell you, there's been other bigger celebrities and probably Rob Riggle and other things, but I was so excited to meet Rob Riggle because he was a Marine, not because he was on TV. You know, I mean, that was sure that was a part of it. But like, he was a Marine. And that's why I was excited to really get to meet him. And so it's those kinds of people that I get to meet people that do really cool things like Medal of Honor recipients. General Mattis, I have a picture, you know, with and I get more excited about those people that I do about any big movie star president, you know or whoever else that I've kind of done in events. And so it doesn't feel like work, I guess would be my biggest thing. And I get really excited about their projects and their ideas and where we can take things.

Brock Briggs  1:11:47  

How did you come to recognize that insight? Because I think there are many people who see they have a thing, maybe that doesn't feel like work to them. But somehow, like turning that into a job that is sustainable for paying their bills and taking care of their family seems like unattainable, almost. What kind of brought you to the realization and then how do you make that jump to, hey, I'm going to put my passion and my work into one thing.

Martha MacPhee  1:12:26  

I realized there was a niche for it, like I could survive from it, you know, there was a reason I could go out and just survive on military and veteran events. It's growing, a lot more people are doing things day by day. And so A, I knew I could break out in it and be okay, you know, having just that be what I wanted to work on. And don't get me wrong, I could make twice as much in a civilian capacity working, but I'd be working 70 hours a week and a job that felt like a job surrounded by people who I couldn't maybe cuss with or say acronyms with or, you know, talk about that one time, you know, we were stuck in barbed wire at 2am, you know, underneath water with camouflage flushed your face. And that's fine. 

But I wake up every morning, like excited to get on my computer, excited to see you know, what my clients have in store. And I think people just I mean, I'm not saying anyone should just be like, this is what I wanna do tomorrow there. You need to make money to live too like don't get me wrong. But finding that niche that needs to be explored more and knowing I guess how much you need to make to be happy, I don't need to make. I wanna travel a little bit. But I don't need to make what? A civilian employee, you know, would do, it takes away I think half from my health just working 70 or 80 hours a week, what I would do as a full, you know, full time for them. I don't necessarily work full time now. I get to travel a lot more. I get to budget a lot more too but I get to hang out with a lot of my friends at all the events or a lot of my acquaintances, you know, that I've met over the years, a lot of my network. And, you know, I'm not a stranger at any event and I love that.

Brock Briggs  1:14:16  

What is your endgame? What are you working towards?

Martha MacPhee  1:14:20  

I am just honestly working towards just staying happy, really.

Brock Briggs  1:14:27  

Staying happy implies that you already are happy. And so that's a good thing.

Martha MacPhee  1:14:33  

Staying happy and getting to do what I wanna do. Again, it's just waking up every morning and being like, I'm excited to open my laptop to see what people you know are creating or doing. A lot of times people trust me to create a lot of things. I've got to create some cool events for a lot of cool companies. For MIC I'm building it, you know, something we're adding to it that I created and I was like, I think this would be really cool. We should do it and Cortez was like yeah, we're in. You know, like, let's do it. And so I love getting to put parts of what I think would be good in conferences and events. 

And I think the military community lets me do that a lot more. And I don't know if it's because I am, you know, they trust me and that they know, I'm part of that community. I've done a tech conference before and I don't know, I will break your computer. I will break your printer if you put any electronics around me. And it's harder for me to come up with ideas or events for those type of sure, I can bring ideas to any event. But I think because I'm so passionate about military and veterans that my ideas are just bigger and better because of the passion I have for it. And that really showcases through a lot of the events that I do.

Brock Briggs  1:15:48  

What do you think is something that we can take away from this conversation and implement in our lives today?

Martha MacPhee  1:15:58  

Find something that makes you happy. And do it and then the other thing I would say from the whole conversation is hire event planners.

Brock Briggs  1:16:12  

They need jobs too

Martha MacPhee  1:16:15  

They need jobs too. But the biggest thing is I've heard a lot of people be like we can't afford it. Or we can't do this and that. But I can't tell you how much money I've saved a client from being able to look at a contract and negotiate it differently from the vendors I know that will be cheaper and can offer the same thing. I also can look at an AV contract and tell you, oh, they're giving you all of the really high end products and we can get you the same thing. You don't need an LED screen. I can get you a projector that costs 1/5 of the price and still gives you the same exact image on it. But when you say LED, they're gonna give you LED you know. And that's gonna cost you $80,000. And I can do a screen for, you know, 10. And it will look the same, everyone will think it's an LED. So event planners can save you a lot of money on contracts, on AV, on the vendors they know. I know one of my clients always wanted to rent chairs for their stage. 

And as chairs, I mean, renting furniture can cost you $250 for a chair, just a normal chair. I mean, like a nicer like velvety one. But you know nothing special about it. And then they wanna cost $75 for delivery. And then if you get five of those chairs, you are a couple $1,000. And I was like, oh, we can order the exact same chair from amazon for $99. And they deliver it for free and the hotel will hold it for you. And so you know, I mean, it's little things, but the amount that I could cut people's planning is huge. And so when people say they can't afford event planners, I get it you know. And some people can't, some people have the time to do it themselves. But the knowledge we have and the amount, I work for a lot of nonprofits, so I had to figure out a lot of ways to cut things. 

A lot of people didn't have enough money in the bank, we had to wait till a sponsorship came in, you know, all this stuff. And I can negotiate all of that through people or I go through organizations that I know will wait till 30 days after the event to get you money. And a lot of them will say they won't do that. But certain vendors trust me and who I am, they may not trust a client they've never worked with before. So there's a lot of things event planners can do. I think that people don't realize and a lot of money we can save people. So that's kind of I mean, besides being happy, I guess the second thing would be is give event planners a chance to hear them out sometimes. But also find out what they can do to cut your, you know, your budget as well.

Brock Briggs  1:18:51  

Martha, this has been a very enlightening and very, very fun conversation. I appreciate you coming on today. How can me and the listeners be useful to you?

Martha MacPhee  1:19:01  

Sure. I mean, I would say there's two things. If you just have an event you're looking at and you just want some advice, I'm always free to give advice too if you just wanna crack open some ideas or get some insights to something you're about to do. I mean, my regular email is just marthamacphee@hotmail.com. I'm easy to find on LinkedIn. And feel free to shoot me a message with ideas if you ever wanna hire an event planner. I'm there to help, too. And it's not just that you have to hire me full thing. 

Several events I'm just an event advisor so they already have event planners in place but they get worried about protocols or they just want to make sure things go really smoothly so I'm a day off person. I am sometimes don't even show up to the event. I just help them from behind the scenes you know do some creatives and some ideas for a couple hours. I do online events. So it's all kind of different. So I would say just reach out to me if you're interested or to say, hey, I just need some free advice. Can you help out? And I'm more than happy to sit down and go through a creative session with anybody, especially when they're doing military and veteran events.

Brock Briggs  1:20:17  

Fantastic. I'll be sure to include a link to your LinkedIn in the show notes. Martha, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Martha MacPhee  1:20:22  

Thank you. It's great talking to you.