63. Writing to Grow, Lead, and Elevate the Veteran Community with William "Buck" Bolyard

Brock Briggs  0:00  

Hello and welcome to the Scuttlebutt. I'm your host Brock Briggs. And today I'm speaking with Will Buck Bolyard. Will is the author of Sober Man's Thoughts and co-founder of Dirtbag Magazine. We start the conversation off with what he's most proud of in life and go on to explore both his writing and writing process, why the world doesn't need more war poetry books and how to lead Junior troops into gunfights and being able to talk about poetry with them and much more. This conversation is extremely raw and in your face, just the way we like it here. Buck isn't afraid to tell it like it is. And I've learned a lot from reading his work and getting to know him over the past few weeks. I respect his pursuit of the craft of writing and lack of concern for others approval, please enjoy this conversation with Buck.

Brock Briggs

One of the first things I wanted to ask you because I think it really gets at the heart of what's important to you is, what is something that you're the most proud of you think in your life?

William Bolyard  1:18  

Hmm. Honestly, it's gonna sound like super stereotypical. But I'm not. I'm probably the most proud of the book I just recently finished, Demons of the Tail Lights, which will be out this year. Because I did a very different approach with that one than I did my other books. Like my military accomplishments or just my military accomplishments, like, it's just badges in schools and stuff like that doesn't really mean too much of a shit to me. It was just a job. But like, with writing my second book, I really, I felt like I became extremely disciplined as a writer. And I really grew as a writer from writing my first book, Sober Man’s Thoughts. Sober Man’s Thoughts was mostly it's weird because it's more like a journal, essentially, that I wrote. And like, it was very alcohol fueled. I don't remember much of writing that book. 

And I feel like I kind of mess with my writing a lot. And with my next one I do wanna go into it sober and I wanna write drunk anymore. So it's funny because I kind of designed this book to look like a journal. But it's not. It's almost like a fictional poetry book, which is the way I kind of wanted to go with it. And once I finished it, for the first time my whole life, I was actually extremely proud of my writing. And I knew it was good. And I knew it was worth something because a lot of writers you'll talk to, they hate their work. A lot of guys do just because it's super weird when your book first comes out, people receive it and you get reviews and one person likes it, another person doesn't like it. 

And it just kind of mess with the whole thing. But with this one, especially here with Keith & Tyler, like you have a good window from when you finish your book until it comes out. And with this one, I've had enough time. I finished it last May, did some edits, did some tweaking, submitted it in December. And now we're doing like cover design and stuff like that. And now I'm like looking back and I’m like damn, I'm super proud of this book. So that's probably the thing I'm most proud of, then my next book or probably the next one. 

Brock Briggs  3:21  

What do you think about this book makes you more proud of it than the first one? Does that have to do with the stimulation? Or maybe the fuel that you use to kind of like power the first book? Is it just like getting the first one out of the way? You've talked in a couple of interviews about how and kind of my perception of what your first book was. It seemed like a very cathartic type process. And you've said that you can now feel like you can write other things now that you kind of like got that internal processing out of the way. Do you think that, does that resonate? Does that sound accurate?

William Bolyard  3:56  

Yeah, I mean, so I think the biggest difference between the second one and the first one is with the first one, I didn't plan on writing a book. I didn't want to be a professional writer. I just wrote to just make myself feel better is more therapeutic. And I had no real design to Sober Man’s Thoughts. Sober Man’s Thoughts was just whatever I had was there on the paper, you know, it was chronological and that's how I ordered the poems. I still had some thought behind it but it wasn't thought and planned out. And but with Demons in the Tail Lights, it all stemmed from like a small period of my life, written over a year and I was like, is this going to be nonfiction? Is it gonna be like a project piece? 

And eventually what I came down with a lot of thinking was that I just wanted to be a fictional poetry journal essentially. It's kind of like a song lyrics journal. It's kind of like, you know, just a story told behind it. There's some fiction pieces in there. There's some nonfiction pieces and like, I just like the whole feel of it all because it's where I felt like I truly was a writer for the first time in my life the first time. Anybody can write a single book, anyone can do it. It's not hard, especially a poetry book. A poetry book is the easiest thing in the world to create. Fiction is a lot harder, storytelling is a lot harder. So if you can kind of find a happy medium between that and I say, I've said it before, I feel like it's the natural progression of writing is that like, everybody starts out writing poetry if they want to be a professional writer. 

And then you kind of move into articles, you know, everybody tries out their little toe in journalism. And I still like doing journalism, this is not my focus, you know. But then you move into short stories and then you kindly once you've mastered that craft, where you feel like you currently have developed your own way of storytelling, then you have enough to tackle a novel. I feel like this was the pinnacle point in my career, where I changed from just being someone who wrote a single book to being a professional writer.

Brock Briggs  5:56  

He got more than one act now. 

William Bolyard  

Yeah, exactly. 

Brock Briggs

I love that. How do you think that the feedback that you got from that first book influenced or maybe didn't influence this next book?

William Bolyard  6:11  

I think I cared more about feedback with the first one because it was my debut, you know. Everybody cares about because like, that's gonna tell you what you're known for. Especially because I was a nobody when I first came out. Keith & Tyler had no idea who I was. Nobody had no idea who I was. I was just a random dude on the internet, you know and then I really put it all out there with Sober Man’s Thoughts. And then now, people know who I am a little bit, you know. I have a little bit of backing behind me. So I wanted this to be different because I didn't want this to be Sober Man’s Thoughts, Part 2.  

And when I got the reviews, the only reviews ever bothered me were, you know, as a veteran, this is just drunk ramblings like that one pissed me off like a lot. Because like you didn't even care, you didn't really dive into the book. You just judged it because it wouldn't have skulls and nods on the front. So this one I went into there, I didn't write it for anybody else. And I didn't write the first one for anybody else. But I cared what people thought and with this one, I know I do not give a rat's ass what people think about it. This could sell one single copy or 5000 copies and I wouldn't give a fuck just because it's just something I want to create. And I think it's something I think it's something people want to join. If they don't, I don't care.

Brock Briggs  7:31  

What do you think it takes to get past that level of working on something and caring about the reception of it to not caring about it? Because that's for anybody that's in any sort of creative endeavor, you feel that maybe even before you start, maybe it's after you start a little bit, you start to maybe get some negative feedback. How do you get over that hump and kind of just like, brush that away so that you can keep focusing on your craft?

William Bolyard  8:03  

I feel like that's the single thing that's gonna decide if you're going to be a professional writer or not. I know a lot of people who have written one book and then quit writing because it didn't sell as many copies as they wanted. You have to go in with the attitude that like, okay, this wouldn't sell as many copies as I wanted. I'm going to make sure the next one does. And then I think it just takes a little bit of personal growth. And honestly, the bad reviews help. I love a bad review because it makes me like self reflect like, maybe they're right, you know, maybe they're wrong. Like you kind of really, it made me sit and like think about it in the next couple of days. 

And I was finishing my second book at the time, when I started to get some bad reviews. And then yeah, just kind of I think the bad reviews helped me more than a good review ever will. And I feel like a lot of people feel that way. It's kind of stereotypical but like, the hardest critique to look at or your fucking in the mirror yourself in at your writing. I was like, am I going to be known as this drunk writer the rest of my life or I'm actually going to be a writer. So I took a step back and I changed it.

Brock Briggs  9:05  

Do you think that there's a certain expectation of veteran or maybe service member writers? You said something earlier about somebody thinking that there should have been like a skull on it? What did you mean by that?

William Bolyard  9:19  

I feel like with any, I think it's more of an audience thing. I feel like a lot of people with how Dead Reckoning started back in the past. It was mostly I think people expected war poetry. War poetry is like a big easy term that everybody throws out all the time. And you look at the greats like Rudyard Kipling. You know, Gerald Tolkien did some like little bit of war poetry. I feel like that was just something. I mean, David Rose, Leo Jenkins, that was like real war poetry. I feel like that's what the veteran culture kind of just looked at for every poetry book after that for Dead Reckoning Collective and I just didn't want to go into that. I never want to tell my, I never really told people I was in the military for a long time. I just thought I was just some veteran, it turns out I'm still on active duty and happened on active duty ever since I wrote this book. 

So I think it's just, I feel like people still want a war story because of where we are in the global war on terror. And the global war on terror was still going on when I finished my first book. And people are always just gonna want that little bit of story, it's action. It's kind of cool. It's an adventure. But I feel like we owe it to ourselves as veterans to just be a little better. Like, if we are going to be the writers we want to be. And we want to be accepted and actually bridge the gap in the civilian culture and be not just a veteran writer, but just be a writer to be able to mesh in and build that, you know, say, again, build that gap. You're just gonna have to stop and maybe write something different. You just don't tell a war story. I mean, Luke Ryan did a great with his novel. You know, he based his military experience on like, his personal experience and wrote a great fiction novel, which I think set him apart from every other writer, that you know, they had in Dead Reckoning. And you know, I hate to say it but maybe still have.

Brock Briggs  11:08  

Do you think that continuing to do or like publish a lot of those like war poetry, as you call them? Do you think that that perpetuates like an image of “veteran writers” and maybe gets in the way of it?

William Bolyard  11:23  

Oh, 100% it gets in the way of it. Because 

Brock Briggs  11:27  

You felt like you're on the edge of a big tear here and I'm trying to pull back the layers. I'm like, he's gonna get let rip here in a second. Like

William Bolyard  11:34  

You know, it's hard for me to say because I mean, I'm friends with so many people in the community. But and people know, they've met me and I'm pretty outspoken on how I feel about things but I feel like we're just shooting ourselves in the foot every single fucking time. Another war poetry book comes fucking out. Hasn't done some great things. Yes, 100%. Are there some great war poetry books out there? 100%. But if you ever proud of that, you're never going to grow as a writer, you're not a writer. You’re just a dude who goes to poetry book, in my opinion. That might be wrong. And I don't care.

Brock Briggs  12:10  

I love that unashamed feeling like and as somebody in the space like, you've got the juice to make a comment about it. 

William Bolyard

Yeah

Brock Briggs 

What do you think that they should be doing? Or like, maybe is it just as much as kind of coming back for the second act? Like what you're doing here?

William Bolyard  12:31  

Yeah, I think, well, I never went into this trying to tell war stories. And I do have a novel that I plan on writing about the war. But I'm not going to publish that till like 10 years from now just because one marketing. If you publish any war book right now, it's just going to be another war book. I mean, all the best Vietnam novels were ever written many years after the Vietnam War. And honestly, probably the last book I ever write just because it'll be my final piece that I can say and then I could just walk away and I don't know, fish and drink on the beach. I don't care. 

But I feel like everybody just needs to maybe push their boundaries, test their limits a little bit. Because if you keep talking about something that, you know, cause you a significant incident in your life, whether it be war, whether it be your military service, whether it was getting out, your transition, I feel like if you keep harping on it, you could only beat a dead horse so many fucking times until people are like, yo, are we doing anything else? Or is this gonna be the same thing forever? Like, I feel like we're at a really big turning point in the veteran writing community where we need to start making a change before we set the pattern and lay the bricks that are going to make us real writers or we're just going to be some other fucking veteran crying about the war. And it's not cool. So it's kind of lame, in my opinion. So 

Brock Briggs  13:51  

You just mentioned or we're talking about marketing. And I would imagine that kind of releasing a book into this environment. There's, like you said, lots of those. And there's a certain timeliness and kind of approach that you've obviously thought about. What has been your strategy if you've had one, to the marketing of your books, generally?

William Bolyard  14:14  

So for my first book, I didn't really have any plan because I didn't know you don't know what you're doing until you do it. Sober Man’s Thoughts, I had no idea what I was doing. Keith and Tyler helped me out a lot. They showed me the ropes, they explained a lot of things to me. There's a lot of things behind the scenes that a lot of people don't see. And I feel like marketing is the lamest thing to do to be a writer. Because at the end of the day, I'm not a salesman. I'm a writer. So, but if you want to be successful in this industry and you want to keep doing it, make it for a living because I'm never gonna go back to work at a real job a day in my life. You have to learn marketing. So you kinda have to figure out like, you have to figure out what your brand is and I hate fucking saying that because it's so fucking lame, but you kind of have to figure out who you want to be as a writer because the writer has half the product to itself. 

Hemingway sold so many books because he was a very interesting person. His writing is okay. I mean, he's great. I will say, but there's a lot of books I read. I read A Moveable Feast. And I was like, this is absolute dogshit. This is a weird book. You're talking about plugging F. Scott Fitzgerald penis, we're like fucking half a chapter. That's kind of weird. But A Farewell to Arms is a true absolute masterpiece. It's my favorite Hemingway book. Do I feel like an old man in the sea should have won the Pulitzer Prize? Probably not. But at that point, he's like an old man. And you know, it is a very great self reflection. And I feel like with Cormac McCarthy. He's successful because he's a really great writer. And I feel like he's also really successful because he's like this almost like full being, you know, there's not a lot, you don't really know a whole lot about the guy who goes spins and be super reclusive. Like, you have to think about what people think of is a writer. 

But you also have to be yourself. If you're just trying to act like a writer to sell books, then you're fucking your dumb one stupidest thing ever. But to stay true to who you are and at the same time, just be a good guy. And that'll help sell books a lot. And one thing I've always found with marketing is, you know, just really pitch a product and sell it. If you're able to sell your book, my philosophy is on it. If I could sell my book to an art student and some liberal arts college, then I'm probably doing something pretty damn good. And I've sold more books on the street by just talking to people here and there than I have anywhere on social media. So

Brock Briggs  16:37  

It sounds like you've taken a really like one to one approach. And like it, you've even mentioned in another interview, like selling books at the bar or just by like, striking up conversations, talking to people has that been like the most effective thing for you that you found, like being able to talk about it? 

William Bolyard  16:54  

Well, I don't know if it's most effective. But it's more rewarding that way I think. And we're in a day and age where you could buy a book anywhere in the world. I've sold a book at Zion National Park on a hike. I've sold a book in a bar in New York City. I've sold books set, like on base just walking around, you know and I think it's just more rewarding. I mean, I don't know how many books I've sold because I don't want to ask. One, because it might hurt my ego. And two, I just feel like if you're in it for the numbers game, like I mean, you have to make a living no matter what. But if you're in it for the numbers and you're never going to be a good writer. You know I might buy your books do or dead, so might as well enjoy the ride.

Brock Briggs  17:39  

Well, I feel like if you can set out to write a book, maybe more so for a personal process and the education and experience that you'll get from writing the book. And if you sell books, then you know, that's just a cherry on top. But it seems like they're all I know, several people who have writing backgrounds and really shy away from like the well, you know, no major publishers have reached out to me, it's like, well

William Bolyard  18:08  

They're not going to reach out.

Brock Briggs  18:10  

Exactly, you know. And then that kind of bridges to my next question, I was curious if you had any thoughts about self publishing versus going with a larger publisher, any benefits or pros and cons to both.

William Bolyard  18:25  

So I always tell people, I steer people away from self publishing a lot. This is I feel like, one, it validates you as a writer. If you get published by a publishing company, whether it be HarperCollins or Dead Reckoning Collective, you have somebody who said, your stuff is good. I want to sell it and they're gonna back you. And it's not just one person involved. You have the backing of a company now. So other people are helping sell your books as well. Self publishing, you might make a little bit more dollars on the back end but like, who cares you know? So I feel like and when I see a self published book, I'm like, okay. He thought it was good. If I see a book written by and so has a publisher, whether it be an indie publisher or whatever, then it means that other people thought it was also good.

Brock Briggs  19:14  

At least two people thought it was good, the writer and at least one person. 

William Bolyard  19:19  

Yeah. So and it's a big commitment for a publishing house to sign on an author because you're also when you sign on an author, you're signing on his problems. If that motherfucker goes and commits a heinous crime, you've thought that guy was a good guy and you can vouch for him, you know? So it's a lot of commitment on them and it's a hard job to do. I can never do it. I can never be a publisher because you know, I don't think anybody would like the books I like but you know, I am also it's not my job. I'm a writer, it's completely different. And but I always and you know, I'll always probably write for Dead Reckoning Collective no matter what, whether it just be poetry or whether it's all my books. It's loyalty at that end, like these guys went out on a limb for a nobody, took me under their wing and showed me how to be a writer and make a living doing it. 

So if I kind of wasn't turning my back on them, then I'm kind of a fucking cocksucker, you know. Like, what kind of a fucking cocksucker am I? Would I want to be a sell out, like no. And I like working with an indie publishing company because it's very personal relationship. I know dudes who've worked for big publishing houses and they're like, I've no idea what's going on in my book. They changed everything. It is what it is. And I have a lot of control over that stuff. But Douglas Hoover, he's self published. And he's very successful in it. But he's also a lot more educated than I am on the process. And I think he would rather just work with himself and say, fuck you to everybody else. And I respect that. He's probably the most successful self published author I personally know. They probably will continue to be.

Brock Briggs  21:00  

Do you think that there's anything to, if you choose to go the self publishing route, a certain amount of authority, maybe that whether that's real authority or not but authority that's given to you once you have a book, even if you do self published like having a physical thing saying, hey, I wrote this?

William Bolyard  21:21  

Man, honestly. I think publishing any book is great. But if you self publish it, then any fucking idiot can sell. I could self publish a single page today if I wanted to. Just go on Amazon, click it away, throw it in, boom, it's on Amazon. It'll be there in like, two days. Not that hard. But are there some really great self published books. I feel like you need to really take a step back and be like, is what I'm trying to say with this book actually fucking important? Eddie Black, another really close writer friend of mine. He, you know, publishes all his stuff through like Barnes and Noble, but he does a lot of his own stuff. He reached out, gets his cover designs, does it been like, at that point like, maybe big publishers aren't going to touch you for a while, you know. So it's better to at least have something in the cradle. 

And then you could market yourself to bigger publishing houses later down the road when you have like a novel to publish, you know. Because let's be real, a big publishing house isn't gonna touch you until you have a novel because that's what sells, you know. So for Eddie, me and him we're both working on novels right now. I mean, he would boast that all the time. Like, yeah, now that we have like something that people will like, oh, you're an actual writer, you know. Like, now we'll probably look at you HarperCollins or all these other big publishing companies will like, look at you a little better. So it's a catch-22. And like the sad thing is, there's no quality control of you self publish. You can be fucking really bad writer and self publish a book. I've seen 1000 of them. 

Brock Briggs  22:57  

Where do you think that maybe aspiring authors or maybe new authors ought to draw the line between like getting something done actually versus like kicking the can down the road? Because that's something that I've seen in the self publishing world is it allows, I’m not educated enough to like, probably have an intelligent conversation about self publishing versus going with a traditional publishing house. 

William Bolyard  23:22  

It's just my personal opinion.

Brock Briggs  23:25  

But I also see self publishing as a way for maybe if you have an idea for a book and you get rejected from everybody, maybe that is the way that people can actually kind of start doing something because that's one of the big frustration or maybe pet peeve of mine is people saying that they can't do something because of some other party that is completely unaffiliated. 

William Bolyard  23:49  

Yeah, you know for self publishing, I'm really not. I just don't do it because I would rather have the backing of a publishing house with my stuff. And will I ever self publish a book? Maybe. I have, like some scribbles or some short story collection that I might just throw out there in the wind because I just don't really care if it sells or not, but will ever commit like a novel or like one of my big poetry books, like my next poetry books like 310 pages. Like I ain't gonna self publish that. That's a lot of work I put in. My short story collections, mostly something for fun. 

So I might just self publish that but I'll probably just publish it through Dead Reckoning, like I always do so. But I feel like you should always write. Like I hate when they're like, oh, I don't have time to write like. Yes, you do. You always have time to write. You can always go back and edit a page. You can't edit the blank page. So if you're going to be a writer, be a fucking writer. Don't sit around, don't lollygag, outline your story, write down what you have to say. And don't be scared of the blank page. Writer's block is a fucking myth. I can sit down and write anything I have. I can sit down and write anytime I want. The biggest problem is just me sitting down and doing it.

Brock Briggs  25:02  

Have you ever struggled with the identity of being a “writer”, like a time where you maybe felt like a little bit of that imposter syndrome? Or I'm not a writer until x thing happens?

William Bolyard  25:16  

Yeah, I have a little bit, you know, I never really, I still don't even look at myself as a writer. I mean, it's on my Instagram because like, you know, it gets you more attention, I guess. Like I don't take social media very seriously. It's mostly just pictures of bullshit. But you know, I didn't. I mean, I still don't think I'll ever be, I probably will never really truly look at myself as a writer until I have a novel published because I feel like that's the title fight of writing, you know. Anyone can do poetry. Anyone can write some short stories. 

When you sit down to write a novel, you're a fucking writer and I don't even care if it's good or not. If you sit down and write like 200 pages of a continuous story, damn, man, you're an absolute fucking writer to me. And I haven't done that yet. And I feel like, not until I finished my novel. Well, I really consider myself a real writer. But even then, I'm still always going to be just buck. Like, I'm not. I'm nobody special. Will I do this for the rest of my life? Yeah, probably. Do I also have, you know, my military retirement is going to come in and help me keep the lights on? Yeah. So it's kind of a good buffer, kind of crash and burn. But I'll never be an insurance salesman. So

Brock Briggs  26:33  

Is that kind of the trajectory that you see yourself taking, like trying to make that a sustainable career doing writing and just focusing on that once you get out?

William Bolyard  26:43  

Yeah, that's kind of my whole plan. Because I didn't ever think I'd get out of the military. But the whole reason I am getting out of the military is one because I have options. But I have options I could easily make first sergeant or sergeant major, if I wanted to, like it wouldn't be hard. Like you just have to stay in. A great colonel once told me there's no trick to getting promoted, just gotta stay in, man. But I just, I have more passionate writing and it makes me a better person, I believe. And I really just want to be a normal guy. And I don't want to do anything else. I think about writing all the time, I think about it nonstop. There's not a day or a moment goes by that I'm not thinking of the next line or the next part of a story that I'm trying to get out there. So I feel like if once it takes over your life that much, you don't have any choice but to be a writer. I can't stop it. I've tried to stop writing, you know, it's never going to take. 

So at that point, you just kind of have to do it, you know. I don't think I could ever work a normal job. I don't like waking up early. I don't like you know, being told what to do. And if I have the means, the funds to chase my dream, like might as well like, one line for a movie I always think about is movie called Up In The Air with George Clooney. He's sitting there and firing this dude because it's during, like the recession time period where they're firing like everybody, essentially. And he asked him, he's like, how much money did they give you to give up your dreams? He's like, $29,000. She's like, you think it was worth it? He's like, absolutely not. And that's my biggest fear in the world is to give up on my dreams. I'd rather crash and burn and be a homeless bum than give up my dreams.

Brock Briggs  28:19  

I love that. And I really appreciate and respect how you've been able to find and like be called to this passion, but also still continue to pursue it while you're on active duty. I have talked about this in so many episodes and beat this subject to death, but I have never felt like less creative than while I was in because it feels like just there's this weight just kind of like pushing down on you all the time to kind of like prevent that by just like standardized processes. And like, there's just not free thinking that's promoted. 

William Bolyard

Yeah

Brock Briggs  

Have you struggled with that at all?

William Bolyard  28:59  

I did when I was a junior infantryman, you know. When I was like, you know, a private to like, maybe probably til I was like E-5, haven’t really told anybody about it. You know, because I was an infantryman. You know, we all have feelings. We don't like art, you know. It wasn't so I met like another dude. One of the guys in my sniper section. He's like, oh, yeah. I went to art school. And I was like, really, for what? He's like, photography. I was like, do you do photography? So he's like, yeah, I do it all the time. And I was like, oh, man, we can do that you know. Like it was kind of like a dirty secret I kept, you know.  

Like it wasn't like some really weird porn but my porn was like, you know, fucking paintings and art and you know, poetry and shit like that. You know, it's not cool. It's hard to be like this hardcore NCO that has to like lead dudes and like gunfights and shit when you're like, trying to talk about poetry. But once I got over that stigmatism, I found that it made me a better leader once I could open up to guys. And yeah, I think I mean, every single one of my juniors who bought my book. And they all were like, damn, I didn't know you felt this way. I'm like, yeah, motherfucker, I'm suffering too. Welcome to the club! I feel like everybody should journal, you know. I feel like everybody should be involved in the arts in some way, shape or form because the world's a terrible shitty place. And if you can't find happiness and or beauty in it, then you're just going to die.

Brock Briggs  30:16  

Why do you think it made you a better leader?

William Bolyard  30:20  

Made more compassionate, made me once you could open up and be on like a ground level with your soldiers, I feel like they're gonna trust you more. You're not just a robot, you're not just a man behind the uniform. They can see who you are as a person. And like, once my guys started stopped seeing me as you know, fucking staff started chuckle fuck, you know, they saw me as like, oh, look at Buck, writer. You know, he writes poetry. So that's pretty awesome. You know, he paints and does photography on the side. It's less intimidating. And if you take a passion in their lives, I mean, I talk about leadership all day, like my personal leadership style, but like, I feel like it's really simple to be a good leader, just put your guys first and care about the problems. And then they'll follow you through hell and back. And once I was they saw me as not just a, you know, a uniform. Mason listen better always help me.

Brock Briggs  31:16  

Was there a moment that that clicked for you? Or was it just something that was developed over time that you kind of gradually showed more of your interests and your kind of personal personality, I guess?

William Bolyard  31:30  

Yeah, definitely, man. I mean, I became an NCO when I was 20 years old. And I probably had no business being in charge of anybody at 20 years old. I mean, it just got to, I don't know, just like with anything, you're gonna learn how to be better at your job. And like, the military is one of those hard things, especially once you start climbing the ranks. You have to see it more than a job or you still not take it too seriously. It's like this whole weird, like dance you have to do with being like an NCO, especially in the combat hours, especially in the infantry. 

I just kind of picked it up and I tried trial and error, saw what works, saw what didn't work, you know and it's just a good happy balance. Sometimes you have to bring the hammer down. Sometimes you have to be a little bit more compassionate. Sometimes you have to tell the dude to shut the fuck up. Your problems aren't that fucking bad. Being a leader, especially in the military at such a young age is the hardest job to put on a man. But I think it's the most growth you can put into a single human being ever in the world.

Brock Briggs  32:32  

You said that there's things that didn't work. Any particular examples of trials or things that you have tried different leadership styles that just have like, totally crashed and burned?

William Bolyard  32:45  

Yeah, I was pretty violent NCO when I first became an NCO as a corporal. So being a corporal and like a reconnaissance platoon, you're kind of especially back in that day, this was 2014-2015. And I was a corporal. You're expected to perform, you're expected to be a bulldog. I was told by multiple NCOs that if I see somebody doing something wrong and you didn't fuck them up for it, I'm gonna fuck you up. So then I was like, alright, well, I gotta be an asshole. So then, like, that kind of became my personality. You know, I was like, known as like the hard NCO. You know, like, oh, don't go to a corporal Buck, like he’ll fuck you up there. I was, like, yelling all the time. 

And then like, but then I just grew up, you know, like, I got demoted a couple of times, you know. I got into fistfights with some of my jo’s, got into fistfights with some of my leadership. And then I just grew up and I realized I didn't want to do that anymore. And then I just, it made me a better leader. And I've realized that it wasn't the right answer and it never was the right answer. So you're not always gonna be proud of what you did when you're in the military. I'm not proud of everything. I'm not proud of the guy I was the whole time. But I also did it for going on 10 years now. I feel like if you sit back and tell everybody you were the best soldier in the world and you're probably the biggest asshole in the world. I was not a good soldier. I was not the model soldier. But I can look back and I still have a relationship for the dudes I served with. And that's all that matters to me.

Brock Briggs  34:22  

It's interesting that you pitch maybe it's just the people and like the relationships with the people that you had in such a positive light because earlier you made a comment about how your time in the service, your badges and awards or whatever it just like doesn't mean shit to you. Where is the line drawn between those things do you think?

William Bolyard  34:46  

Well, like I said earlier, it's like a good happy balance, you know? Should you strive out to make officers and military, 100%. Should you strive to maybe go collect that jump wings? Air Assault wings, you know, mountain badge CIB? 100%. Like, I feel like, because like in the military, you wear your resume on your chest. So I feel like you have to accomplish something. But does it make you a bad NCO if you have nothing? No, it's just a, if you do it great if you make it your identity, you're a fucking idiot. The color of your hat, the tabs you got, and the freakin awards you've earned. I mean, absolutely Jack fuck once you hang it up. And the thing that’s ever gonna matter is when you get out, you hang that uniform up for the last time. If you can make a phone call to somebody you served with, then answer the phone. That’s it, it's just a job. If you do it well, cool. If you're a bad soldier, cool. Did people like you and get along with you? Great.

Brock Briggs  35:49  

Why is it so hard for people to separate, like just seeing it as a job?

William Bolyard  35:56  

I mean, well, one, it's an indoctrination process. It's designed to be that way. Most people, especially in the combat arms come from impoverished areas. It's their first accomplishment ever in their life. The American society likes to put, you know, American servicemembers up on a giant pedestal. You're paid pretty decently for a little bit of work you do, it's a lot of struggles, you get camaraderie through that. And everybody's gonna shake your hand and when you walk down the street and you know, small town, USA. So it's hard for you to let that go. It's hard for people to look at it, then more than what it is. And then I don't think these things will ever leave you. 

But I'm definitely not going to walk around and say once a soldier always a soldier or once a sailor always a sailor, once a Marine always a Marine because it's not true, you know. You're gonna have to move on. If you don't adapt, you're going to die, which is contradictive of things I've said in the past in my first book. I said, you know, establish roots as a die, you know and but I don't know, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't contradict that. I guess established roots and a set thing that die on that hill was kind of, I feel like, you just have to have constant growth. And I don't see holding on to your military service as constant growth. I see it as staying in your ways. 

And it's really hard, especially social media, especially in the veteran community because social media is kind of curated to what the algorithm thinks you're gonna like, to have you like couple military posts and all you're going to see on your feed is, you know, nods and guns and special operations and all this cool shit. And like reality, that's bridging the gap farther and farther from you. And I've noticed a lot of dudes that get out, they just don't have hobbies. If your hobbies are guns and you like guns, cool, but I just don't see that as a hobby, personally. 

Brock Briggs  37:54  

Yeah. Some slight side commentary on building a social media following in 2023, posted a bunch of videos and NVGs and some air assault like paratroopers, video, people jumping out of planes, and you've got 100,000 followers. So, yeah, people really dig that stuff. But yeah, it's extraordinarily difficult. Because I know personally, I tried to like really walk away from my service when I got out. And I'm interested to see if your feelings change over the coming years of like getting out and how that kind of transition process will be. 

And if you change your mind about that, I know I certainly did. I really didn't want to be like the vet bro and tried to like walk away from it and do that whole thing. But I found myself like, here I am, like hosting this podcast, like talking to military folks. Hopefully about I tell people, I didn't think that we would get too hung up on it. But there are some people I tell before we come on, I'm like, this is not a fucking reminiscing podcast. Like there's plenty of those shows or you can just go like swap war stories and whatever, do that whole thing. But this is about kind of building your life outside of service. Because I think that that's not done enough.

William Bolyard 

Yeah, 100%

Brock Briggs

It's good to kind of like, acknowledge where you came from and especially, you know, joining very young when that's all you know like that's an especially if you have like, any sort of accomplishments while you're in like, that's what you've got to clean too.

William Bolyard  39:34  

Yeah, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Like, I'm not gonna lie. Do I have plaques and you know, things hanging on my wall, like things I've done in my service? 100%.  Am I proud of it? Yeah, but I'm just not gonna like, go to some random motherfucker in a bar in New York City and be like, hey, so do you know I was a paratrooper? You know what that is? Like no, I'm gonna do that. You got to find a common ground with anybody. I'm not saying that being in the veteran community and being involved in other veteran organizations is one of the greatest things I've done. Because I was very against it. And I didn't want to be a part of it. I didn't want to sit around and swap war stories. I didn't want to talk to other veterans just because I was tired of fucking hearing it. And but I am involved in the PB Abbate. I am really involved in PB Abbate. It's probably the only veteran organization I'm really involved in. 

But because I've seen what it's done and I've seen how it helps people and they do things in a different light that brings hobbies, other hobbies into this community and shows them something else to work on. Like with book club, I'm super involved in book club. I do go to book club meetings all the time with them on virtual stuff. And all the books I'm interested in, no. But when we talk about an interesting book and I get to like blab on for like you know about what I like about books and I get to show someone a different light of literature, I love that. Anyone I get they see somebody who probably wouldn't be in the books, but they're reading a book because it's on like military service and stuff like that. That's still a good thing.

You should be involved in veteran communities, you should join the VFW, you should join the American Legion. Because those things are around for a reason, you're going to have to stay plugged in the veteran community no matter what because it was such a big pivotal point of our lives. Well, I probably ever change my ways about how I look at it. Probably not, I think I was just in too long to really work how I've changed things at this age in my life. But I'm a member of the VFW in Savannah, Georgia. I am a member of the PB Abbate  book club and a writer for Dead Reckoning Collective and that's I think it's a good thing to do. Nothing I helped get to help some people with it.

Brock Briggs  41:44  

From the people who have gotten out and seem to have really like taken hold in their life after service, one of the most common threads that I tend to see is some sense of ongoing community with other vets around other things, like you said, book club, writing, other activities. You're around other people that you kind of have a common background with. And a lot of different veterans service organizations kind of go about it different ways. But I tend to agree with what you're saying on the community driven exercises.

William Bolyard  42:23  

Yeah. And it doesn't have to be a veteran thing. I feel like everybody joined for some sense of service. I joined because I wanted to serve my country, not really. I was poor and I didn't really have a lot of options. I was like, well, I guess going to war sounds like a really cool adventure. You know, getting into a gunfight might be badass. And that's kind of why I joined but at the end of the day like there is a sense of service behind it. Even if I didn't go in with that sense of service, I developed a sense of service while I was in, when I became a leader and I was like, responsible for other motherfuckers' lives. Now that's a massive thing to take on. You'll have to read a fucking Jocko book to understand the importance of fucking leadership. Do I think leadership books are lame? 

Whatever you say, you shouldn't have a grown man trying to tell you how to be a leader. That's just fucking weird. Go get involved in a club and like be a leader, you know? I think it's just the new generation of self help books and I think that shits absolutely dumb. But you know, if you can't get involved with the veteran organization, man go help out the dog shelter. You know, I mean veterans, I mean the dog shelter, tons. Do you know how many veterans just helping out at the homeless shelter, a lot more than you think. And I think there's the best veterans out there because there's the quiet service member and that is a super proud thing to be. I think people have taken or not really looked at how important those people are, you know. It's all special operations cool guy this or that look in fog, good, whatever the fuck bullshit. And it's fucking lame because they're just gonna those people just want to take your money and run and make fun of you. 

Brock Briggs  44:00  

What do you think is the obsession about that as just a lot of and I mean, I would put myself in this category too. Like that's, I had dreams of being that person at one point in my life to like I

William Bolyard  44:13  

Oh, every guy has, you know, it's the coolest thing in the world, you know. 

Brock Briggs 

Yeah

William Bolyard 

Other than being a fighter pilot. That's the coolest job in the military and I want everybody to know that. If you want to know more about me just read my books, you'll probably figure it out.

Brock Briggs  44:28  

Right. Well and that's the beauty of people that have like and are open and publish their work, whether it be through a book, whether they write onlin,e blog, whatever, is you really get to see an interesting part of people that you wouldn't otherwise and that a little bit dangerous. And sometimes it's odd to think about all of your information and stuff being publicly available like that. But it’s kind of the nature of the game in today's social media world. 

William Bolyard  45:00  

Yeah, and it kind of sucks because like one thing I really the thing I probably hate the most about the veteran culture is how quick veterans are to attack other veterans. Like, there's nothing that pissed a veteran off more than seeing another veteran successful.

Brock Briggs  45:12  

Like, what do you mean? 

William Bolyard  45:13  

Oh dude, freakin’. So it's really, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. So there's tons of, there's hundreds of Special Forces businesses out there now. With every time like one of those businesses gets popular, nobody has a single good thing to say about the guy. Is that guy a bad guy? Yeah, probably the things I've heard about him are things that are pretty fucking bad. But I mean, I don't know a lot of true perfect service members in my life. I know eventually, if I ever make it a little bit more popular, people are probably gonna dig some skeletons out of my closet. But I'm like, fuck, man. Like it's really surprising how like, it's only the veterans that really want to be like, oh, yeah. oh, this guy is like selling a coffee company like Black Rifle Coffee is a great example. 

Everybody loved Black Rifle Coffee when they first came out. Everybody absolutely loved them. Do I drink their coffee? No, I'm cheap. I buy fucking like Maxwell House. Do you have a lot of friends that work there? Yeah, 100% But ever since like a little whiff of the air if something goes wrong with Black Rifle Coffee, it's over every mean page over every veteran page. It's like you have fucked in, Black Rifle Coffee stupid. Like yeah, well, can you name another organization that employs that many veterans? No, you can't. Can you name an organization that hires that many veteran spouses? No, you can't. Can you name an organization that's probably brought as much light to veteran issues? No, you can’t. But you're real quick to try to get your VA rating through HunterSeven even though Black Rifle Coffee gets a lot of money through them.

You're real quick to fucking say a lot of things about them but you've probably benefited from them being a little bit more popular bringing up veteran issues. Veterans are cunts, real bastards and I kind of fucking hate it. And I really wish we would just help each other out a little bit more. And I've been guilty of it. Do I kind of look and go down the tangent on something. Sometimes it talks shit about other veterans. Yeah. Am I right for it? No. Am I perfect? No. I'm just a fucking writer. I'm not a fucking priest. But I'll tell you what, if any of my guys ever need something anybody I've ever served with, I will fucking help them out no matter what because I can't save everybody but I can help the dudes I care about.

Brock Briggs  47:30  

I think that it is you know like you said to anything that goes wrong and it's very quick to like jump down their throats. I do admire what those guys have built and are putting together. I really hope that in like the coming decade that you were talking about the veteran writing community being at the kind of a turning point what I hope we're at the turning point for as kind of like a community is like doing some bigger things that are beyond coffee and like T shirt companies and like make a little bit of a bigger impact and that's not to bag on Black Rifle, like they're and especially they just went public. They’re a great company. But like let's get out there and like make some weights and other things and I hope that we can pour gas on the fire for some of other veteran started businesses and see some people make it big.

William Bolyard  48:26  

Yeah, I want that too. Do I see it actually ever happening? Probably not just because successful veterans and other ventures and avenues don't really bring up their service too much. I don't know if that's by design or you know, it's just helps them out professionally. But I mean one thing T shirts are a pretty profitable fucking business. You can buy and print a t shirt for $3 and turn around and sell that motherfucker for $30. I know this because I started a business and I know what profit margins and fucking marketing and all this other dumb shit and understand earlier about. So and coffee beans are kind of cheap buy, pretty roasters pretty cheap buys. Profit margins are fucking huge. 

And I've seen other veteran companies like One More Wave, great company, makes surfboards you know gets veterans out there surfing. Are they gonna make absolute shit ton of money? Probably not. But can you at least make a living doing it? Yeah, probably. VetRep Theater, really great veteran organization. I worked with them a lot. They're involved in like theater, veteran arts. Are they going to be successful as Black Rifle Coffee? God I wish they would. Is it going to happen? No. Because it's marketing and fucking sales and shit I don't even understand. I just I don't think we'll ever have a big veteran voice come from like, you know the massive entertainment department that is out there, you know. 

Adam Driver’s probably never gonna come out like on Black Rival Coffee with social media or anything like that and like trying to get I mean, he does donate a lot of money too like, you know, helping veterans get in like, you know, acting and stuff like that. But he's ever going to publicly out there like, go on to interview and say it? Probably not. It's just not cool. The American people don't give a shit anymore, one. So

Brock Briggs  50:14  

Yeah. Well, and it's interesting to see the changing face of media like probably the biggest, maybe military person Jocko, you mentioned him earlier, whatever. But it's funny that all of that, like military talk is like followed by so many non military people like that. It's like kind of almost a completely different audience than what you think it would be.

William Bolyard  50:40  

Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's like, I don't explain, I can't say it in a politically correct way. Honestly, it's just a bunch of dudes that really have inadequate feelings about themselves and feel like they get kind of involved in a tough culture that will make them tough. And they don't realize that they could just be tough by probably being a good family man. And you know, going out and doing some hard labor. And is that for everybody? No. Do I think you need to pay a dude $2,000 to go through a freakin a weekend course and get hazed to be a man? Probably fucking not. That's kind of weird to me. Maybe just go about your local boy scout troop or something, man. I don’t know.

Brock Briggs  51:25  

Well, I think it becomes more, what I think people don't realize is you don't gain respect by talking about something, you get it by doing something. And I think that that's, I have a ton of respect for what Jocko has built and like, this crazy media empire. And it's because he's done that thing already. He was already living those things. And then there are a lot of people that kind of see like, oh, maybe if I just like, start talking about all these things and saying all these things, then I will kind of become that. And I get the whole line of thinking about like, kind of bring that if you say it, you'll become it sort of idea. But say it to yourself or be doing it on your own and then kind of come back and talk about it.

William Bolyard  52:11  

Yeah and even if like, I don't personally like or give a shit what they're doing. Can I say that they've probably brought a little bit more light to at least one person about veteran issues? 100% And that's a good thing. I don't have to like everything for it to be a good thing. I'm not probably a great judge of character on stuff. So I don't think a lot of us really listen to much of what I had to say buy my books and if you like it cool. But you know, I'm not a fucking philosopher. I'm not a self help guy. 

Brock Briggs  52:39  

You were mentioning before we started recording to me that you have a couple other projects in the works right now. I'd love to hear about, you mentioned a novel. You mentioned another poetry book. What are you working on? And we also got to talk about Dirtbag too.

William Bolyard  52:55  

Yeah. Well, I mean, I can either do this a me podcast or I could have my partner come on and do Dirtbag later down the road, but I'm bringing it up because Dirtbag is obviously a massive passion for me. But yeah, so yeah, whatever. I was fucking let it ride. Levi is the guy who runs Dirtbag Magazine with me. I met him at a PB Abbate event, really talented writer, really talented guy, really talented photographer. And he just kind of had the same dream I did. I was kind of an independent journalist for a while. I was writing articles here and there, but I was finding that I couldn't really get a lot of articles published other than like veteran media outlets, which are very confined to certain subjects. You basically have the right to clickbait articles about things you don't really give a shit about, like, what's your opinion on this military movie, like this unknown veteran, which I've written some of those articles, I will say. But you know, you gotta make some money every now and then. 

But the way I saw it, is that I can either complain about it or do something about it. So in a fit of spite and anger, I learned how to build a website, founded Foreign LLC, and started my own magazine called Dirtbag Magazine. And we're not very active because it's ran by two people. But the things we do bring to the table when we do something, we're going to do it all the way. We're working right now to get two journalists in Syria right now. And I'm not going to say their names or anything like that, because I don't want them to get like murdered. But we are going to probably have two journalists working independently and we're going to get some press passes and get them some, like some paperwork to get into Syria to do some more corresponding. 

We personally going to be working on trying to get Antarctica in January of 2024 to cover the ethics of Antarctica tourism and we're probably going to write some other articles like music, bass, that's a real big love of his music. But we're basically just going to do stuff that no one else is going to do. And we're going to do it with half the funding that anyone else is going to do. Because right now me and Levi self fund this thing. We make absolutely zero profit off this whole business. And we're gonna continue to keep it that way. Because I feel like it's going to make it a lot more authentic, where essentially trying to be a mixture between VICE News and Rolling Stone. We're gonna cover bands that you're not going to know about and we're going to go places you probably never thought to go. And we're just going to tell a story, we're eventually going to probably make some documentaries. 

Brock Briggs  55:38  

You said at the beginning of starting to talk about it that you guys both had the same dream. What is that?

William Bolyard  55:45  

To be an artist that's not a veteran artist, but just be an artist. Levi also is a veteran. He's also on active duty. He's probably the few 23 year old Marines I know with a combat action ribbon. And you know what? Rarely ever talks about it. He's a photographer and he's a very talented photographer. And when I met him, I knew we clicked on a really personal level. I knew he believed the same things I did that to make a bigger impact in the world is not be a veteran artist but to be an artist who just so happens to be a veteran. And that's what we're bringing to the table.

Brock Briggs  56:22  

I really liked that. Well, and that's kind of been an underlying theme. And a lot of the things that you're talking about today is this whole idea of just producing things and not writing on past actions. And because at the end of the day doesn't really mean anything and it can be good in and of itself not just, oh, it's good for being a veteran or whatever.

William Bolyard  56:46  

Yeah, cuz when Dirtbag first came out, I turned down a lot of articles. And I still turned out a lot of articles I get. Because I'm not going to publish a veteran article. If you want to write veteran articles, you go right for half a journal, Lisa lines, Black Rifle Coffee and there's tons of outlets out there, they're probably making more money. But if you want to be anybody and you want to push the boundaries and go do something worthwhile and tell an actual story, then you could come write for Dirtbag. We won't pay you a lot. But we'll give you something I guess. We don't have a lot of money. I will say that, again, we do not have a lot of money.

Brock Briggs  57:22  

You'll get the joy and pleasure of being published. And that'll be about it.

William Bolyard  57:26  

Yeah, it's kind of a cool side project for me and Levi, we do have some really cool, we do have some really big name writers who were involved with it, especially with our second issue that's coming out in February. Hopefully it comes out in February, we're really bad. We're not really organized. So it's kind of makes it fun. But yeah and I feel I've seen a lot of like, big name veteran writers really take to this because they're like, dude, I'm so fucking tired about military stuff. I can't do it anymore. So the culture is changing, especially in the veteran artists world. And I want to be able to offer an opportunity for anyone to come right about whatever the hell they want. And you might not get published by a big magazine, but we will help you build a resume. We're not in place, but we're a fucking we're a stepping stone, hopefully to somewhere bigger.

Brock Briggs  58:10  

I'll be sure to include links to that in the show notes as well as a couple other links to your books and stuff. 

William Bolyard  58:16  

Yeah, man I gotta make my money off of writing. Writing books because I like writing books. I'm never gonna stop being a writer. I do have a new book coming out this year. So that'd be good. I might have two out this year. We're just gonna see how it goes. That’s how the writing world is.

Brock Briggs  58:31  

See how much writing you get done on after your surgery.

William Bolyard  58:36  

Well, the problem with me is that I work on multiple projects at one time, it's how my brain works. I usually write at least two books at the same time. So I wrote I was already working on Demons of the Tail Lights when I was working on Sober Man’s Thoughts. And I started working on short story collection really heavily when I was working on Sober Man’s Thoughts. My first short story I ever wrote, I wrote when Sober Man’s Thoughts wasn't even finished, you know and I want to make it a collection. I'm taking my time with the collection because it's not my main project. It's not my main focus. It's something I work on in the background. 

You know, when I'm tired of working on my novel, which I'm working on, I'll go and work on you know, my short stories. It's a good little break and that keeps the gears winding. And it makes me a better writer, if you will. But yeah, Demons of the Tail Lights will be out this year. It'd be really, it'd be something different. There are some more poems in there for you guys that fucking like that shit. So you could feel good about that. But I've written some original songs in there. I have some original artwork in there. It's going to be something different and I hope that people enjoy it for what it actually is, see it for what it is and not just thinking Sober Man’s Thoughts, part 2. So

Brock Briggs  59:58  

I have a couple closing questions for you today, the first two come from Sober Man’s Thoughts. And I wanted to just kind of ask you to expand on them a little bit more. The first one is a line or the first two lines of Sober Man’s Thoughts. I was too busy living the life to ever actually write it. And it got me wondering and thinking about whether what we should be optimizing for. Should we be optimizing to live or to document? And because I think that you've probably thought a little bit about that.

William Bolyard  1:00:37  

Yeah. That's a line. I remember writing actually. So you're good on that one. No. So basically, Sober Man’s Thoughts, I chose it for the title for a certain reason, because even if Sober Man’s Thoughts didn't have a lot of thought behind why it came out, I still wanted to have a message behind it all. And obviously, it's a really personal book for me. You know, I dedicated it to my fiance, who passed away back in 2014. But yeah, basically with that line, I really wanted people to stop and what I meant with that is I was too busy living my life to actually write it because I was just living it. I was living in the moment. I didn't think past the next day, let alone the next Senate's. I wrote most of the stuff, I would scribble a couple lines down and it would go on my phone or like go on a notepad somewhere and I just keep living life. 

It was very rare for me to sit down and actually stop, I'm never going to stop and like, say like, hold on, hold on, man. Let me write this down real quick. Like, because I'm not going to do that. I'd rather go out and experience life than sit in my house all day and write. Do I have to do that? 100%. It's become a job now. I'm gonna have to sit down and write. But I feel like the only thing that makes anybody better from any trauma is to actually go out there and experience life to the fullest. I've talked to college classes before where they asked me what do you think the best thing to be a writer is, when I told them to jump out of college and go out and live his story. 

Because if you want to write a story, you have to live a story first. Every story ever written, whether it be fiction or nonfiction is obviously based on somebody's life, especially fiction. There's more truth in fiction than you know, anything else, obviously. But it has some tangibility in there. And if you really want to write a great story, you have to first go out there and experience it because people are going to tell you if you're full of shit. And that's kind of what that line really means to me.

Brock Briggs  1:02:38  

The second one is another line from Sober Man’s Thoughts. No solution was ever found in the bottle of self pity. 

William Bolyard 

Yeah

Brock Briggs 

You kind of take that and expand on it a little bit, maybe. 

William Bolyard  1:02:51  

Yeah. So obviously, after, you know, my fiancee passing away, it really fucked me up. It's still something I deal with to this day. It's such a hard thing to go through, when you're 20 years old. It's a really hard thing to go through. It's probably one of the hardest things you'll ever go through in your entire life. It's definitely harder than to go into war, it's definitely harder than killing a man. It's having something that you love so much that it's ripped away from you and you can't change it.

So I had a choice, I was either going to sit down and suffer for the rest of my life and be depressed about it or I was going to do something about it. Just kind of a big thing about who I am. I'm gonna if there's a problem and I can physically solve it, I'm going to try to solve it. And there's a few problems out there that you can't solve. One of them, you can't bring the dead back. But you can live a life worth to people. So I don't think any of your problems are ever gonna be solved by just sitting around and wallowing about them. You could change your life in a single day by changing the way you live it.

Brock Briggs  1:03:55  

A last question. You mentioned in another interview that your writing process typically revolves around writing the first chapter and then writing the last chapter and then filling the ends in between. If you were to give us some commentary on the first chapter of your life and the last chapter of it, what do you think that you would say?

William Bolyard  1:04:20  

Well, the first chapter of my life is probably you know, your upbringing. I feel like people are a product of the environment they grew up in. Department taught me that, stole that line from there. But you're definitely, you're always going to be who you are when you're a child. If you're interested in books and you're interested in art, you're probably gonna be interested in that when you're an adult. But I feel like I hate to say this because I've heard it said before and I didn't like it then but it does have some bit of truth in it. If you go through some trauma when you're a young adult or a kid, I feel like it really does make you a better person. Because you're gonna go through trauma anytime in your life, it's gonna happen, you're gonna lose people, things are gonna happen to you. 

But if you do it young enough and at an early age, they can really make you a better person and make you self reflect and really just be more compassionate as a human being. I don't know the way or how it's ever going to take you but it can make you. I didn't have the best childhood, I didn't have the easiest upbringing. The chips are stacked against me from day one. But I made the best out of it no matter what. Now I'm on fucking podcast talking about my weird contorted ideas of how I look at life. In the last chapter of my life, I'll probably be just an old man who makes great shitty poetry books. I don't know. I don't really care. I don't know if I'll ever get married. I don't know if I'll ever have kids. But I do know that I'll leave behind at least a dozen books for people to read and that's okay with me. 

Brock Briggs  1:06:02  

Awesome! Buck, I really appreciate you sharing and coming on and chatting with me today. The last final question actually not a personal one though. How can myself and or anybody listening be useful to you?

William Bolyard  1:06:18  

Be useful to me, buy my books please. Buy my books and then most importantly buy a couple books out there. You buy Eddie Black’s books there so wherever books are really sold by Douglas Hoover's books, support Dead Reckoning Collective because they keep the lights on, support Amy Sexauer. She's a really talented author. Support any of the authors of the Dead Reckoning Collective and obviously support this podcast and support any veteran you can find and then just go be a good human being and then we'll be okay. 

Brock Briggs  1:06:55  

Awesome! Man, I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much.

William Bolyard  1:06:59  

Yeah, no worries, bro.